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weedeek
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Dumfries, Scotland
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29-10-2018, 09:26 AM
21

Re: Black page in EU history

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
If the scots had done that you wouldn't have the regional parliament in scotland.
Off topic maybe, but the Scottish Parliament is a national parliament not a regional one. Also, please stop referring to England when you mean the U.K. England is not a sovereign state, it is one of the nations of the UK and cannot go to war on its own.
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Puddle Duck
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29-10-2018, 09:35 AM
22

Re: Black page in EU history

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
I thought we were talking about war in Europe. Among the countries that were always at war before the EU.



I don't understand what deprivation in the UK has to do with the EU. It has always existed but post war and beyond we had a very generous welfare state which became unaffordable. I remember a time when everything we take for granted now was very expensive and beyond the reach of ordinary people. You had to save up for new clothes, or a tv. We now have cheap goods but far less welfare. It's nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with capitalism expanding to economies that were previously undeveloped. They are far more affluent now as a result.
Large organisations answer to shareholders and have to make a profit to survive. If their shares drop they are vulnerable to takeover. The foreign organisations you describe are global.

Looking at fuel, British energy was acquired and then sold to EDF by the British government.

You can blame Thatcher for the housing market situation. There will be more homeless because of the changes in the structure of welfare. While rents have gone up, social housing and housing benefit have gone down. I'm not sure what this has to do with the EU. It's a usual Tory policy which has been spurred on by the Financial crisis of 2008.
Deprivation in the UK has a lot to do with the EU. Firstly,
3 million jobs, were given to EU nationals, job descriptions were altered, and full time jobs were reduced to part time, creating enough of those jobs needed. Part time wages were supported by tax credits, which was money coming from the EU . Child tax credit is classified as a ‘family benefit’ under EU law and working tax credit is classed as a ‘social advantage’ .
Did you not receive phone calls begging you to apply for tax credit when they first came out in 2003..? I did, I was plagued with phone calls and forms even though I knew I wasn't entitled to anything. All around the same time as Blair agreed to the 3 million entering the UK workplace. So deprivation walks hand in hand with hours and wages being reduced to fit another agenda involving other EU nationals on the move. Coincidentally, ten more countries joined the EU in 2003/4 the Treaty of Accession was signed in 2003 for the following countries (Czech Republic, Estonia, Cyprus, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Malta, Poland, Slovenia, Slovakia. )They needed work !
Money from the ERDF , to councils. Money wasted over and over again. I know as I worked in council and saw, witnessed and was flabbergasted at the waste, as if there would be no tomorrow. The amazing 2000's was all on the back of the EU money, of which we contributed more than most other countries, so it was our own money coming back for the benefit of EU nationals. One big mixing pot. Along with the influx of people, there were not enough houses being built for rent. Private landlords was the new way of solving the problem, which did start with Maggie Thatcher. Our builders were paid to go and work in Germany if you remember as we had no building going on at the time and in 1976/77 at that time I was working in the Inland Revenue and we were printing cards by the thousands as forms of builders ID. So the process was being arranged on a massive scale, not just the hope that if we have no jobs here, they will go to Germany... it was designed ! The same as everything else has been designed. UK leaving has upset their apple cart, but who should we consider more important, our own people or those from the next seven countries waiting to join and reap the benefits .

If the order is followed, it is noticeable that for every country joining the EU there is an industry which they will predominately acquire to keep the home fires burning, so to speak. As examples France has energy and nuclear, Germany has cars and transport, UK has Tourism and Services, others have meat produce, others agriculture. That is how the global companies have taken over in private business, every form of industry has been or will be consolidated under one ownership. Hopefully, what we have remaining in the UK will stay with the UK.
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AnnieS
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29-10-2018, 10:08 AM
23

Re: Black page in EU history

Originally Posted by Puddle Duck ->
Deprivation in the UK has a lot to do with the EU. Firstly,
3 million jobs, were given to EU nationals, job descriptions were altered, and full time jobs were reduced to part time, creating enough of those jobs needed. Part time wages were supported by tax credits, which was money coming from the EU . Child tax credit is classified as a ‘family benefit’ under EU law and working tax credit is classed as a ‘social advantage’ .
....All around the same time as Blair agreed to the 3 million entering the UK workplace. So deprivation walks hand in hand with hours and wages being reduced to fit another agenda involving other EU nationals on the move. .

You cannot blame the EU for Blair's policies. But what his decision did was to make food production cheaper and more efficient. So more people could afford food. We have some of the lowest food prices in Europe as a result. Where were all the unemployed Brits when the EU workers came over? They were not rushing to get to factories at 5am or to work night shifts.

The changes in working structure are nothing to do with the EU and were predicted many years ago. Look at Charles Handy's predictions. This is something inevitable. It will change exponentially more with the rise of AI.
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AnnieS
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29-10-2018, 10:19 AM
24

Re: Black page in EU history

Originally Posted by Puddle Duck ->
Money from the ERDF , to councils. Money wasted over and over again. I know as I worked in council and saw, witnessed and was flabbergasted at the waste, as if there would be no tomorrow. The amazing 2000's was all on the back of the EU money, of which we contributed more than most other countries, so it was our own money coming back for the benefit of EU nationals. One big mixing pot. Along with the influx of people, there were not enough houses being built for rent. Private landlords was the new way of solving the problem, which did start with Maggie Thatcher. Our builders were paid to go and work in Germany if you remember as we had no building going on at the time and in 1976/77 at that time I was working in the Inland Revenue and we were printing cards by the thousands as forms of builders ID. So the process was being arranged on a massive scale, not just the hope that if we have no jobs here, they will go to Germany... it was designed ! The same as everything else has been designed. UK leaving has upset their apple cart, but who should we consider more important, our own people or those from the next seven countries waiting to join and reap the benefits .

I don't understand your points here. Councils and government departments do waste money. But that's hardly an EU problem. These are our policies and our management decisions. A lot of problems stem from Thatcher's policies in the 80s.

Originally Posted by Puddle Duck ->
If the order is followed, it is noticeable that for every country joining the EU there is an industry which they will predominately acquire to keep the home fires burning, so to speak. As examples France has energy and nuclear, Germany has cars and transport, UK has Tourism and Services, others have meat produce, others agriculture. That is how the global companies have taken over in private business, every form of industry has been or will be consolidated under one ownership. Hopefully, what we have remaining in the UK will stay with the UK.
We have technology and innovation, but UK policies do not encourage enterprise. I'm not sure how tourism will be boosted by leaving the EU and making entry to the UK more difficult?

France and Germany have very different approaches to business and managing internal affairs. But what has this to do with the EU? They have different cultures. Our culture seems to be to spend billions on poorly thought through projects that are abandoned halfway through or when the government changes. This is where all the money gets wasted.
Julie1962
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29-10-2018, 10:37 AM
25

Re: Black page in EU history

Originally Posted by Puddle Duck ->
Deprivation in the UK has a lot to do with the EU. Firstly,
3 million jobs, were given to EU nationals, job descriptions were altered, and full time jobs were reduced to part time, creating enough of those jobs needed. Part time wages were supported by tax credits, which was money coming from the EU . Child tax credit is classified as a ‘family benefit’ under EU law and working tax credit is classed as a ‘social advantage’ .
Did you not receive phone calls begging you to apply for tax credit when they first came out in 2003..? I did, I was plagued with phone calls and forms even though I knew I wasn't entitled to anything. All around the same time as Blair agreed to the 3 million entering the UK workplace. So deprivation walks hand in hand with hours and wages being reduced to fit another agenda involving other EU nationals on the move. Coincidentally, ten more countries joined the EU in 2003/4 the Treaty of Accession was signed in 2003 for the following countries (Czech Republic, Estonia, Cyprus, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Malta, Poland, Slovenia, Slovakia. )They needed work !
Money from the ERDF , to councils. Money wasted over and over again. I know as I worked in council and saw, witnessed and was flabbergasted at the waste, as if there would be no tomorrow. The amazing 2000's was all on the back of the EU money, of which we contributed more than most other countries, so it was our own money coming back for the benefit of EU nationals. One big mixing pot. Along with the influx of people, there were not enough houses being built for rent. Private landlords was the new way of solving the problem, which did start with Maggie Thatcher. Our builders were paid to go and work in Germany if you remember as we had no building going on at the time and in 1976/77 at that time I was working in the Inland Revenue and we were printing cards by the thousands as forms of builders ID. So the process was being arranged on a massive scale, not just the hope that if we have no jobs here, they will go to Germany... it was designed ! The same as everything else has been designed. UK leaving has upset their apple cart, but who should we consider more important, our own people or those from the next seven countries waiting to join and reap the benefits .

If the order is followed, it is noticeable that for every country joining the EU there is an industry which they will predominately acquire to keep the home fires burning, so to speak. As examples France has energy and nuclear, Germany has cars and transport, UK has Tourism and Services, others have meat produce, others agriculture. That is how the global companies have taken over in private business, every form of industry has been or will be consolidated under one ownership. Hopefully, what we have remaining in the UK will stay with the UK.
Working in manual jobs all our lives we've seen what eu membership has done down here at the bottom, wages, hours, languages, housing, it goes on and on. So yes eu has affected us badly. It's not lost on me all the people I know personally who voted leave have been affected as we have, all the people voted stay haven't been affected because they aren't in the jobs that have been targeted by eu migrants.
swimfeeders
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29-10-2018, 10:55 AM
26

Re: Black page in EU history

Hi

This is not an EU matter, it is a Eurozone matter.

We will be out soon, so not really bothered how the EU conducts itself.
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JBR
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29-10-2018, 12:30 PM
27

Re: Black page in EU history

Originally Posted by moscow ->
that will never happen.

17.4 million brits agree with me on that.

You are one of those many people that knows full well the faults and problems with the eu and yet holds on to the myth that the eu is some wonderful, democratic, progressive force for good when the reality is it is none of those things.
You're like a child who found out that santa doesn't really exist and doesn't want to acknowledge that.
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Solasch
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29-10-2018, 04:04 PM
28

Re: Black page in EU history

Originally Posted by weedeek ->
Off topic maybe, but the Scottish Parliament is a national parliament not a regional one. Also, please stop referring to England when you mean the U.K. England is not a sovereign state, it is one of the nations of the UK and cannot go to war on its own.
Where I referred to england and english going to war was not the subject. It was about english family of the dutch queen. Also to distinguish from what is often assumed, a family relation of stadhouder Willem III with your queen Mary.
Moscow
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29-10-2018, 06:59 PM
29

Re: Black page in EU history

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
Where I referred to england and english going to war was not the subject. It was about english family of the dutch queen. Also to distinguish from what is often assumed, a family relation of stadhouder Willem III with your queen Mary.

You have conveniently ignored my request to you to name a war that England has started in the last 300 years. I can name many European countries that have started wars over the past 300 years. The answer is that England has started not a single war over the past 300 years. Neither has Scotland btw.
Our Union is the longest , most successful and most peaceful in history.

I asked that because you constantly refer to England instead of the UK when referring to matters of state or matters of Sovereignity.

You now have a Scot telling you that 'England' and ' UK' are not interchangeable and your thinking you are being somewhat clever in separating England from rUK is wholly misplaced and just shows your complete misunderstanding of the nature of the Union here on this island.

One last thing The Royal Family is not this nation. The Royal marriages, relationships and historical inter breeding has no bearing on the political reckoning of this nation, nor many other countries I should guess.

What's your fixation with this irrelevant thread of European culture?
itsme
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Wigan UK
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29-10-2018, 07:12 PM
30

Re: Black page in EU history

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
Working in manual jobs all our lives we've seen what eu membership has done down here at the bottom, wages, hours, languages, housing, it goes on and on. So yes eu has affected us badly. It's not lost on me all the people I know personally who voted leave have been affected as we have, all the people voted stay haven't been affected because they aren't in the jobs that have been targeted by eu migrants.
Prove this wrong

Just as with the £350 m pounds the NHS would get when we leave was proved a lie, the detrimental effect of Immigrants on society as presented by the leave campaign have also been proved a lie in the Immigration Advisories Committees report.

In 2016-17 migrants from the EEA (EU plus Iceland, Norway and Lichtenstein) paid £4.7 BILLION more in taxes than they received in welfare benefits and public services.

The UK born population was a net cost to the treasury of £41.4 BILLION and non European migrants a cost of £9 BILLION.

Migrants have little or no impact on the overall employment of the UK-born workforce with little effect on wages.

EU migration has brought a massive net benefit for health and social care services both through the taxes paid by migrants and by increasing the work force. "There is NO evidence that migration has reduced the quality of health-care".

There is no evidence that migration has reduced parental choice of schools or the educational attainment of UK-born children.

I could go on but I think those with more than 2 brain cells would have known this already, rather than believing the clap trap of the leave campaign.

How many more of the nonsensical reasons to leave did you Brexitier wallies believe?
 
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