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27-10-2019, 12:24 PM
181

Re: 39 people found dead in lorry

Originally Posted by Meg ->
Summer I thought the same unless they haven't got a passport of course.

I used not to like the idea of identity cards but think the time has come to have them and that they need to be produced to get a job/accomodation/medical treatment. I realise that may not prevent the people smugglers and modern slavery bosses who keep trafficked people hidden away but they will go so way to keep track of who is here.


I feel sorry for the genuine refugees fleeing from conflict but we are a small island and can't take everyone who wants to come here from the billions of would be economic migrants who are misled into thinking they will automatically get a job and a better life here.
Yes, IDs are the obvious answer to our immediate problems. I wish more people would see that, but there are and always will be the do-gooders who object.
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27-10-2019, 12:29 PM
182

Re: 39 people found dead in lorry

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Yes, IDs are the obvious answer to our immediate problems. I wish more people would see that, but there are and always will be the do-gooders who object.

Isn't it inevitable that ID's would be forged at some point, like passports, driving licences and any other official papers?
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27-10-2019, 12:33 PM
183

Re: 39 people found dead in lorry

Originally Posted by JBR ->
I agree.

We have a choice: have fewer children or die.

Many Western people, perhaps most, are not guilty of having more children than they can support.
The people who are irresponsible, and have far more children than they can support, are mostly in third-world countries and, of course, the Catholic church encourages that as well.

Because they cannot breed responsibly, their countries become overpopulated and cannot support the numbers who live there, so what do they do? They come here for the support they can't get in their own countries.

All because they cannot control their own societies.

So as well as destroying their own countries, they do the same to ours.

That appears to be our future too.



The Catholic Church has NOT been encouraging them .
This is very largely a myth .
It once was the case .
Nearly fifty years ago when I was a young girl living in South America and a Catholic myself I spoke to a priest about this .
How to justify very poor people not using birth control etc etc .
He told me he would never condemn poor people using contraception and most of the priests who work with the poor don’t .
They know the misery of raising large families in slum conditions .
Maybe things have changed but I doubt it .
It depends on personal responsibility.
In Africa and the Caribbean people believe in having children .
Men think it’s a macho thing and they are often irresponsible.
Plenty children shows ones virility .

In the West people do have less children but those children use far more of the worlds resources tha poor children in third world countries .
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27-10-2019, 12:37 PM
184

Re: 39 people found dead in lorry

Originally Posted by JBR ->
I agree.

We have a choice: have fewer children or die.

Many Western people, perhaps most, are not guilty of having more children than they can support.
The people who are irresponsible, and have far more children than they can support, are mostly in third-world countries and, of course, the Catholic church encourages that as well.

Because they cannot breed responsibly, their countries become overpopulated and cannot support the numbers who live there, so what do they do? They come here for the support they can't get in their own countries.

All because they cannot control their own societies.

So as well as destroying their own countries, they do the same to ours.

That appears to be our future too.
It is a horrible thought JBR, but I think it will happen!
The world is changing too fast .... more violence and less people being sufficiently punished. More illegal immigration that we are not dealing with , and hardly any countries being prepared to help reduce the climate change. The blame lies with weak governments & human greed.
I feel sorry for the wild life who will probably die by drowning, dehydration or starvation.... because they didn't create this unbalanced population on earth!
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27-10-2019, 12:44 PM
185

Re: 39 people found dead in lorry

Originally Posted by Mups ->
Isn't it inevitable that ID's would be forged at some point, like passports, driving licences and any other official papers?
No. At least not unless "sleepers" were sneaked into secure database management.

Any ID card or chip or finger print or retina scan or whatever biometric was used then just like our bank cards and now even our passport forms the access key to a database.

While any ID card would not be beyond the wit of man to duplicate when biometrics such as retina scan are used as the equivalent of our PIN even authenticity the ID device to access the database becomes highly problematic.

There is no such thing as absolute security but like the speed of light it is both possible and increasingly even practical to get pretty damned close to it. I firmly believe that we now must have "ID cards".
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27-10-2019, 12:46 PM
186

Re: 39 people found dead in lorry

Having lived overseas most of my life I have always carried ID cards from whatever country I was in .
I always found them very useful and can not understand why people are opposed to them .
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27-10-2019, 01:31 PM
187

Re: 39 people found dead in lorry

Originally Posted by Muddy ->
Having lived overseas most of my life I have always carried ID cards from whatever country I was in .
I always found them very useful and can not understand why people are opposed to them .
The opposition here was not against having ID cards, but disagreed with the information kept on them and there were concerns regarding data security and access.

If they have an ID card it should be like a driving licence or passport, simple and not singing and dancing.
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27-10-2019, 01:46 PM
188

Re: 39 people found dead in lorry

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
The opposition here was not against having ID cards, but disagreed with the information kept on them and there were concerns regarding data security and access.

If they have an ID card it should be like a driving licence or passport, simple and not singing and dancing.
I suspect that's whole lot of people are not even aware of just how much data and information is held on interlinked data bases behind their driving licenses, passports, bank credit cards, bank debit cards, loyalty cards and many more already.
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27-10-2019, 02:00 PM
189

Re: 39 people found dead in lorry

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
I suspect that's whole lot of people are not even aware of just how much data and information is held on interlinked data bases behind their driving licenses, passports, bank credit cards, bank debit cards, loyalty cards and many more already.
True, but I don't believe that there is a single national system that works. There is data protection legislation which prevents the sharing of data between organisation without explicit consent. (of course explicit consent can be gained in underhand ways). An ID card containing global data would legitimise this big brother society if passed by statute.

Of course various laws to get around this have been passed on the quiet. They are made with little publicity. People take these things for granted because in the culture of distraction we only notice things brought to our attention.
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27-10-2019, 02:12 PM
190

Re: 39 people found dead in lorry

Now the families quite naturally are asking for the bodies to be returned to Vietnam.
I think they should be if Vietnam will pay for them.
Perhaps they can send a plane
If not they will have to be disposed of here
Whatever costs less.
I know this sounds dreadful but people should not try to enter the UK illegally .
 
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