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01-12-2018, 12:11 PM
1

"Two Years Working to Stop Us Leaving the EU".

A very telling article in the Express today by Stephen Pollard, Political Commentator. Do you agree as a Leaver? Rather long but very apt description of all that has happened.

QUOTE

California rockers the Eagles knew nothing about the EU when they wrote Hotel California in 1976. But the lyrics are a perfect fit for Brexit: “You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.”

In June 2016, we voted to Leave the EU. The referendum question was unambiguous and the result clear, by 52 per cent to 48 per cent. Immediately after the result, the leading Remainers said they accepted we were leaving.
You know the old joke that you can tell if a politician is lying because his lips are moving? The Remainers treated Hotel California as a road map. They knew they had to let us implement Article 50 and check out of the EU. But they have spent the last two years working round the clock to stop us ever leaving.

The mechanism they have latched on to for that is a second referendum.
Ever since the result in 2016, the plan has been to engineer another referendum to re-run the vote, with the expectation that, second time around, Remain would win. They have always realised they cannot simply pretend the referendum did not happen so they have had to go through the motions of accepting it.
But from the moment negotiations began with Brussels, they have been spouting the sophistry that we need another referendum to approve exactly how we leave.
None of this is surprising because it is what always happens when ordinary people dare to say what they think about the EU. If the voters reject Brussels then the voters are wrong and must change their minds.

In 2005, the then president of the European Commision, Jose Manuel Barroso put it bluntly when the French voted “No” to the proposed European Constitution. “They must go on voting until they get it right.”
That is exactly what has happened with other EU referendums. In 1992 the Danes said No to the Maastricht Treaty. Their vote was ignored and the treaty went ahead. In 2001 the Irish voted against the Nice Treaty. That was cast aside. In 2008 the Irish voted against the Lisbon Treaty. Again, it was cast aside.

This idea that ordinary voters’ views are best ignored is deeply ingrained in the mindset of the EU. It’s supporters view themselves and the EU project as superior to anyone who questions them. And they regard anyone who talks about national sovereignty as uncouth and stupid. So, by definition, it is their “moral duty” to overcome their opponents.
You can see this from the way Leavers are portrayed as ignorant racists.

In recent weeks, the idea of a second referendum has started to gain momentum. Across both main parties, leading figures are now floating the idea, as if it is somehow a wonderful idea that has just occurred to them as a way out of the parliamentary chaos over Mrs. May’s Brexit plan.
But this has been what the Remainers have been working towards ever since June 2016, when voters delivered an almighty two fingers to the EU establishment.

There is a huge irony at the heart of what is now happening. The push towards a second referendum proves the very point of the first referendum - that we have to leave because we need to take back control.

This week, shadow chancellor, John McDonnell stuck two fingers up at the millions of Labour voters who told him and the rest of our political class that we should leave. He said another referendum may be “inevitable”. But there is nothing inevitable about it.
A second referendum requires the Commons to legislate for one - to make a conscious decision. In other words, to set aside the 2016 vote and start all over again, with another vote that the Remainers think that they can win.
They think they can win because they have spent the past two years in a prolonged version of Project Fear, pushing the idea the the world will end if we leave without a deal.

But they are playing with fire, because there is even greater cynicism at work in Remainer calculations about another vote. If we are ordered to vote again, many of those who voted for change in 2016 will conclude that it was a waste of time voting in 2016 and will also be a waste of time voting in a second referendum.
Because even if voters were again to deliver a clear result to Leave, the pro-EU establishment would simply not allow it. So they would not vote this time round.
This takes us along a very dangerous path. Democracy is always vulnerable to those who portray it as a con.

On the continent there are any number of unsavoury populist movements on the rise because they have been able to persuade voters that mainstream politicians are not interested in them.
In Italy the Five Star Movement is in power. In Austria, The Freedom Party is in government. In Germany, the Alliance for Germany is gaining support. And in France, Marine Le Pen made the run-off for the presidency.

We have always been able to resist populist movements because our mainstream parties have responded to voters.
But Labour is in the grip of revolutionary socialists and poses a huge threat to society.

If the Tories are unable to deliver the Brexit demanded by voters, I fear for what will replace them, and I fear for our democracy.

UNQUOTE

That, it seems, is it in a nutshell. Not a truer word spoken!
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01-12-2018, 01:00 PM
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Re: "Two Years Working to Stop Us Leaving the EU".

In the event of another referendum, after Mrs May's deal is knocked on the head, the questions on the ballot paper will not be as we had previously in 2016.

I believe we will be given Hobson's Choice.

I have been spending time watching Politics Live in an afternoon on the BBC. The scrutiny committees, etc. Very interesting and quite often the replies are very different to what the press are publishing.

Neither do we know who, what and why so many politicians and ex politicians have over time met up with Monsieur Barnier. They must have had their reasons and included, Blair, Brown, Major, Miller, Corbyn, Clegg, Cable , Darling Nicola,and so many more . We have to ask what their impact has been and what little deal has been made on their behalf too behind closed doors. They didn't go running for nothing !

Truly sick of the whole lot. If we take London's vote off out of the figures, the remainder of the country voted hands down to leave. London is full of new comers, high flying careerists , who spend much of their life on cocaine or planes.
Neither does Scotland's vote count, as they are still intent on threatening us with leaving the UK union anyway. We don't forget threats in a hurry why rush the band aid to their wounds when they would rather bleed to death ? Let them go. Who give a toss of the caber ?

One thing is certain, if this vote for Brexit is reversed , the Tories are doomed into oblivion , there will be only one political party of any numbers i.e. Labour, and we will be heading nose first into the abyss of socialism on a huge scale, with no alternative, where the house prices will certainly drop and a path of no return following into the footsteps of Venezuela.
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01-12-2018, 01:15 PM
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Re: "Two Years Working to Stop Us Leaving the EU".

Originally Posted by Puddle Duck ->
In the event of another referendum, after Mrs May's deal is knocked on the head, the questions on the ballot paper will not be as we had previously in 2016.

One thing is certain, if this vote for Brexit is reversed , the Tories are doomed into oblivion , there will be only one political party of any numbers i.e. Labour, and we will be heading nose first into the abyss of socialism on a huge scale, with no alternative, where the house prices will certainly drop and a path of no return following into the footsteps of Venezuela.

That is why I think russia is behind this operation истерия.
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01-12-2018, 01:42 PM
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Re: "Two Years Working to Stop Us Leaving the EU".

Well said, SG & PD!

Have been thinking the same way most of the two years.

If they do con us into a new referendum, and as long as the questions are so bent that we may not be able to win, I think that we'll have to work VERY hard to ask those who voted OUT to do so again.

Many are now fed up with the whole show. They will need some support.

But we must get the idea!

They (the remainers in power) have planned it this way.

I'm baffled, now, by the vote set up for the MPs and by all the resignations being suggested.

Can't help but wonder if it's all just part of some plan.

Still, two years before an election & two years to bribe us back into submission.
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01-12-2018, 01:53 PM
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Re: "Two Years Working to Stop Us Leaving the EU".

Yes that article is spot on. Those involved in the charade should be put on trial imho.

When they engineer the 2nd referendum they will skew it very simply by increasing the number of options. This is a long standing well known trick/device that follows the "DIVIDE AND CONQUER" strategy.

Ask people if they want to LEAVE or STAY and you have but 2 options and as we saw 52% voted Leave.

With such a small margin it's plain to see that in a subsequent vote they will increase those choices to 3 whatever they be and in doing so will split the "Leave" vote making is useless.

For example they might give the choices:

1. Leave under May's appalling duplicitous BrExit deal

2. Leave with No Deal

3. Remain in the EU


You can see instantly that the Leave position has been craftily split there. There are 2 Leave options and only 1 Remain option. That means Remain votes are not diluted. Not split and so the full force of their 48% will easily trump whatever the percentages are for the other 2 Leave options.

Collectively the 2 Leave options would total more than the Remain option but by setting them out as 3 separate options they would succeed in purposefully splitting the vote. Some would inevitably vote for May's Leave option, others, realising that it isn't really a Leave option at all would opt for No Deal.

The Leavers would be split and despite it being a clear and obvious perversion of justice and the democratic system our EU controlled governments would do it anyway.

We need to stand up and fight this kind of thing. It is heralding the end to our democracy, to our freedoms and rights. Our governments should not be able to do this kind of thing and should be put on trial accordingly for breaches of the UK Constitution.

When it happens do not fall for the ruse. Demand fair democratic votes and demand that they act lawfully on the previous referendum result.
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01-12-2018, 02:15 PM
6

Re: "Two Years Working to Stop Us Leaving the EU".

I wonder how Theresa May would vote if there was to be a second referendum if her deal is trashed in Parliament?


What would the choices be? perhaps...


The PM's Final negotiated Brexit Deal

Stay in the EU

Leave the EU with no Deal.

Wouldn't the above be a field day for campaigners of each choice. Each would have to take on the job of trashing the other two.

Sadly, it would also be obvious that it would be the Leavers who would lose because it would be two choices in favour of leaving thereby splitting the leave voters, and one for remaining, which again, would entail the remain would win.



Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit and No Brexit.
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01-12-2018, 02:36 PM
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Re: "Two Years Working to Stop Us Leaving the EU".

Hi

We voted to Leave.

No provisions had been made for doing so.

Cameron resigned, the Tory Party had a Leadership Vote and we got Theresa May.

She appointed three Arch Brexiteers to seliver.

Boris, David Davies and Liam Fox.

We can have our cake and eat it, this will be the quickest Trade Deal ever done. They need us more than we need them.

Article 50 was triggered, along with our Red Lines, NO Norway, NO Switzerland and No ECJ.

That gave us two years to sort it.

We had the battle cry, No Deal is better than a Bad Deal.

The Brexiteers delivered Naff All.

May called an Election, no need to do so, and then lost her Majority.

We are now being dictated by 10 DUP Nutcases.

Liam Fox racked off the Countries we have Trade Deals with as part of the EU, causing complaints to the WTO.

The EU did not budge, you can have your No Deal

Boris resigned, so did Davies.

No leadership challenge, no one has come forward.

We are ripping ourselves apart and getting trodden on.

We cannot blame the EU for this, it is entirely our own fault.

They delivered Naff All.
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01-12-2018, 02:44 PM
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Re: "Two Years Working to Stop Us Leaving the EU".

Sorry Realist, must have been typing my post when you posted. You explained it so much better in detail than I did. Well done.
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01-12-2018, 05:57 PM
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Re: "Two Years Working to Stop Us Leaving the EU".

Now, there's interesting !

https://politicaluk.co.uk/2018/11/ni...rZ2W25gYC0Jzgo


' Former UKIP leader, Nigel Farage caused concerns with his comments about voting against the deal and the risk of a second vote.

He said: “It won’t just be Westminster that votes on this, it will be the European Parliament too that has the final say on this.'
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01-12-2018, 05:59 PM
10

Re: "Two Years Working to Stop Us Leaving the EU".

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

We voted to Leave.

No provisions had been made for doing so.

Cameron resigned, the Tory Party had a Leadership Vote and we got Theresa May.

She appointed three Arch Brexiteers to seliver.

Boris, David Davies and Liam Fox.

We can have our cake and eat it, this will be the quickest Trade Deal ever done. They need us more than we need them.

Article 50 was triggered, along with our Red Lines, NO Norway, NO Switzerland and No ECJ.

That gave us two years to sort it.

We had the battle cry, No Deal is better than a Bad Deal.

The Brexiteers delivered Naff All.

May called an Election, no need to do so, and then lost her Majority.

We are now being dictated by 10 DUP Nutcases.

Liam Fox racked off the Countries we have Trade Deals with as part of the EU, causing complaints to the WTO.

The EU did not budge, you can have your No Deal

Boris resigned, so did Davies.

No leadership challenge, no one has come forward.

We are ripping ourselves apart and getting trodden on.

We cannot blame the EU for this, it is entirely our own fault.

They delivered Naff All.




Good to see someone from that beautiful county with a brains.
 
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