09-04-2021, 05:36 PM
111
Re: World War II
Originally Posted by Dachs
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At the beginning of the occupation, the Allies dismantled the remnants of German industries. Plants and machinery were dismantled, the railroad system deconstructed and everything transported to the Allies. The German merchant fleet and all other ships were handed over. Foreign stocks of about 2.5 billion dollars were confiscated. The remaining German industries had to give up a share of their production to the Allies. Large shipments of steel, coal, but also other industrial production were seized and transported out of the country.
However, I'd be interested to learn what proportions were handed over to America and what proportions to the UK.
09-04-2021, 08:15 PM
112
Re: World War II
Originally Posted by Dachs
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@Donkeyman wrote:So it seems that Germany has paid of a small portion of the costs of the war to USA then Dachs, at least that's something l suppose?However , UK borrowed, in materials and arms etc from the US and Canada a total of. £2•8 billion of which we repaid £4•8 billion over 50 years, so almost double what we borrowed ??
That's something that should have been negotiated with the US and Canada.
The amounts sound trifling now don't they!!What l have been unable to ascertain though is if the axis countries ever made reparations to UK ??
"According to the Yalta Conference, no reparations to Allied countries would be paid in money. Instead much of the value transferred consisted of German industrial assets as well as forced labour to the Allies.[2] The Allied demands were further outlined during the Potsdam Conference. Reparations were to be directly paid to the four victor powers (France, Britain, USA and the Soviet Union); for the countries in the Soviet sphere of influence, the Soviet Union would determine its distribution." [...]
At the beginning of the occupation, the Allies dismantled the remnants of German industries. Plants and machinery were dismantled, the railroad system deconstructed and everything transported to the Allies. The German merchant fleet and all other ships were handed over. Foreign stocks of about 2.5 billion dollars were confiscated. The remaining German industries had to give up a share of their production to the Allies. Large shipments of steel, coal, but also other industrial production were seized and transported out of the country.[4] Later the Western Allies softened their stance in favour of the Marshall Plan, while Eastern Germany continued to deliver industrial goods and raw materials to the Soviet Union until 1953.[5]" [...]
Millions of Germans were pressed into forced labour for several years to work for the Allies in camps, mining, harvesting or industry. "
And don't forget that USA and UK kept large standing armies in Germany for many years ostensibly to hold back the communist hordes ?? Who financed that?
"After World War II ended, the main four Allied powers – Great Britain, The United States, France, and the Soviet Union – jointly occupied Germany, with the Allied occupation officially ending in the 1950s. During this time, Germany was held accountable for the Allied occupation’s expenses, amounting to over several billion dollars."
And don't forget the Berlin blockade when all supplies into Berlin had to be airlifted in? Who paid for that!?? Imo it should have been USA, and they may well have done so? But l have no info on this !!
The costs of the airlift were initially paid for by the US and Britain (US-$ 200 million), later on by the Germans. In Nov 1948 the three western occupied zones (later on the FRG) raised a special tax "Notopfer Berlin" which was in effect until 1958.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_reparations
https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/t...n/1510134.html
As l was working in the machine tool ldustry at that time, l wondered
why there were so many machines of continental manufacture
being used in one particular company l worked for??
These machines had a MOD,( ministry of defence) stencil on them
and most of them were in bad condition and worn out, ( l presume
by being continuously over worked ?) during the war!!
Most but not all. of these machines were German, my job was to
put these machines back in good working order so from my point
view this was a good thing as plenty of overtime for me??
I was under the impression at the time that we had stolen them from
the defeated enemy which made it even better??
Thanks to your info it seems that we were given these worn out
machines in lieu of monetary payments and so were somewhat
short changed??
I blame the British authorities for not inspecting what they were
getting before shipping them over,for this! Although l benefited
personally from the situation at the time !!
Once again, thanks for the info, l will read it again to see if l can dig
anything further out from it?
Donkeyman! 👍🤔🤔👍
10-04-2021, 01:41 AM
113
Re: World War II
Originally Posted by The Artful Todger
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I disagree. Joe Stalin was facing the attempts funded and supported from outside to overthrow the Russian Revolution. Check out "White Russians". On top of that the war in Europe was raging. His "own people" were NOT his own people. The people who fell foul were counter-revolutionary forces who were attacking the free Russians with just as much ferocity and so had to either join the free russian people or face the consequences. Their decision.
10-04-2021, 06:40 AM
114
Re: World War II
My goodness - what a wealth of information!Thank you all very much - I do appreciate all the input and have carefully bookmarked all the links that have been suggested. I will certainly follow them up when I have worked my way through these DVDs. Obviously I have a steep learning curve ahead of me - but I am sure I will enjoy the journey - I love to learn!
10-04-2021, 07:54 AM
115
Re: World War II
Originally Posted by Silver Tabby
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My goodness - what a wealth of information! Thank you all very much - I do appreciate all the input and have carefully bookmarked all the links that have been suggested. I will certainly follow them up when I have worked my way through these DVDs. Obviously I have a steep learning curve ahead of me - but I am sure I will enjoy the journey - I love to learn!
75years ago and history is written by the winners.
Simple view from me, the USA and Russians won.
The UK would be speaking German now without them.
10-04-2021, 08:29 AM
116
Re: World War II
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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Hi75years ago and history is written by the winners.
Simple view from me, the USA and Russians won.
The UK would be speaking German now without them.
The UK was starving - virtually blockaded by uboats yet America insisted we pay in gold before they helped!!!
America's full participation didn't come until after Pearl Harbour. We DO NOT OWE America any thanks - and they DID NOT WIN THE THE WAR!
10-04-2021, 09:33 AM
118
Re: World War II
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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Hi75years ago and history is written by the winners.
Simple view from me, the USA and Russians won.
The UK would be speaking German now without them.
Originally Posted by Lindyloo
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We PAID the USA to help us..........and we're still paying. Why do you think they have American Army bases here? The UK was starving - virtually blockaded by uboats yet America insisted we pay in gold before they helped!!!
America's full participation didn't come until after Pearl Harbour. We DO NOT OWE America any thanks - and they DID NOT WIN THE THE WAR!
Lindyloo,
You seem unbelievably ungrateful. 1st, the U.S bases still in the U.K. are there to protect the U.K. and indeed all of the NATO countries, from any and all current day threats .
2nd, and most importantly, it is critical to understand that FDR had his hands tied by the "Neutrality Act" of 1939. The overwhelming % of U.S. citizens were extremely anti-war and did not want to become involved in another European war, in spite of the fact that most U.S. citizens were pro-British.
You mentioned "full participation". Until December 1941, it would have been illegal to grant Britain everything she asked for. Early in the war, working together, Churchill and FDR worked out a lend-lease program , which side-stepped the Neutrality Act and allowed the U.S to "lend" both food and military equipment to the U.K. in exchange for leasing British eastern Atlantic bases which Britain could ill afford to defend anyway.
After December 1941, the flood gates were opened and the U.S. supplied everything to Britain that it possibly could and still be able to fight a 2 ocean war. Had Churchill been PM in 1938 onward, I feel positive that he would have dealt with Hitler in an entirely different manner and things would have turned out differently.
Remember this, if it had not been for the weak willed, jelly spine, PM Chamberlain (at Munich), Germany might never have gotten a running head start on the war.
In any event, I can't imagine that Britain could ever have successfully invaded "fortress Europe". Thus she, Britain, would have had to wait until the Russians defeated the Nazis but by then the Russians would have controlled all of Europe. (Even France? ). Either way, it is impossible to imagine that the U.K. could have ever taken on the Nazis in a head-to head battle on mainland Europe without the Americans.
No one is asking anyone to kiss Americas arse. But, a touch of gratitude would be in order.
10-04-2021, 10:08 AM
119
Re: World War II
Ungrateful? How grateful should we be for things we were paid for................and the English were starving before those paid for foodstuffs arrived.This is a matter of historical fact. I'd just like to point that out. In fact I believe we didn't complete paying until fairly recent years.
If the Americans had seen us as their friends and allies across the ocean, they surely would have helped to support us in our hour of need............and that wasn't the case!
10-04-2021, 10:11 AM
120
Re: World War II
Originally Posted by bakerman
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-------------------------------------------------------------------Swimfeeders is absolutely correct. Without the U.S., Britain would now be speaking German. Even BEFORE the war, Britain had to import 70% of it's foodstuffs. Without America sending food to the U.K. , many Brits would have staved to death.
Lindyloo,
You seem unbelievably ungrateful. 1st, the U.S bases still in the U.K. are there to protect the U.K. and indeed all of the NATO countries, from any and all current day threats .
2nd, and most importantly, it is critical to understand that FDR had his hands tied by the "Neutrality Act" of 1939. The overwhelming % of U.S. citizens were extremely anti-war and did not want to become involved in another European war, in spite of the fact that most U.S. citizens were pro-British.
You mentioned "full participation". Until December 1941, it would have been illegal to grant Britain everything she asked for. Early in the war, working together, Churchill and FDR worked out a lend-lease program , which side-stepped the Neutrality Act and allowed the U.S to "lend" both food and military equipment to the U.K. in exchange for leasing British eastern Atlantic bases which Britain could ill afford to defend anyway.
After December 1941, the flood gates were opened and the U.S. supplied everything to Britain that it possibly could and still be able to fight a 2 ocean war. Had Churchill been PM in 1938 onward, I feel positive that he would have dealt with Hitler in an entirely different manner and things would have turned out differently.
Remember this, if it had not been for the weak willed, jelly spine, PM Chamberlain (at Munich), Germany might never have gotten a running head start on the war.
In any event, I can't imagine that Britain could ever have successfully invaded "fortress Europe". Thus she, Britain, would have had to wait until the Russians defeated the Nazis but by then the Russians would have controlled all of Europe. (Even France? ). Either way, it is impossible to imagine that the U.K. could have ever taken on the Nazis in a head-to head battle on mainland Europe without the Americans.
No one is asking anyone to kiss Americas arse. But, a touch of gratitude would be in order.
Watching the movies, reading the books, all created since, does not a lot to help with understanding that.
I'm proud that Britain got involved early.
Had we not done so, virtually all of Europe would now be Nazi!
A touch of gratitude, coming our way, would be nice!
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