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07-07-2018, 05:25 PM
111

Re: Why Won't You Walk Away, Mrs May?

Thank you for taking the time to post that Realist.
Well said JBR
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07-07-2018, 06:55 PM
112

Re: Why Won't You Walk Away, Mrs May?

I have to admit being surprised by Mayhem.
She is keeping her promises about leaving the CU and SM...because she is proposing new ones on a bilateral basis.

Nice one!

I am not at all sure the EU will accept this tho. It is cherry picking of the worst kind and may well break some of the rules concerning the SM....ie freedom of movement.


That aside what I am delighted about is the final emasculation of Bojo and friends who have spent two years making your Brexit impossible.
and making the UK look foolish and weak internationally.


Whether th EU Parliament and Council agree with this, as well as the UK Parliament, is unclear. But at least you now have someone at the tiller who doesn't keep having the smack the hands of those who want to wrest I from her.
At least for a while.

Course you can always go back to your No Deal solution that started this thread, with the resulting consequences I described.

If a nation decides to follow a false prophet and swallows everything he says without doing any research or thinking, you get what you voted for. and don't pull the one that says you know what you voted for. If leaving had been so simple you would be ut by now.
I only feel sorry for those who had no vote and are hugely uprooted and whose lives are disturbed by this.

For those who knew me in another forum perhaps you will remember my claiming that Brexit is more about economics than emotion? That you will end up with the same thing but different because economic logic says so?
and that that silly whatsisname who was convinced that Turkey would flood the UK with immigrants because he had heard Farage say so? (that was called projet fear too remember).

Thank you. I am having a good day. Sanity has at last shown itself alive and well and where it counts. We aren't out of the woods yet but there is a light glimmering in he distance.
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07-07-2018, 07:10 PM
113

Re: Why Won't You Walk Away, Mrs May?

JBR you are talking nonsense.

Every piece of draft legislation comes to the parliaments/seats of power in all EU member states for their approval.
If they give anything up it is voluntary and in fact is limited to three areas...trade, workers' (human) rights and the environment. All other areas of legal jurisprudence is left to each nation to determine. That is why the EU didn't interfere with Spain and Catalonia.

The first makes sure the mutual benefits of trade via the EU are ensured.
The second is in fact copy of the UN charter which you would have to follow anyway because you signed up to I.
The third just makes sense and you have signed the Paris Agreement anyway, repeating your agreement with the EU.
Are you now going to drop out of that accord signed so that the effectiveness of environmental protection is far better than going it alone?

Your post about habeas corpus has to do with the rules around extradition and holding suspects believed to be involved ONLY in financial crime/fraud before sending them back to where the crime was committed. The actual national laws take over from there including your habeas corpus. It prevents possible criminals ONLY of fraud from absconding and hiding in some remote part of the world so it allows countries to hold suspects until they can be sent where they should be tried.

I am surprised you want them to be able to run all over the EU because you don't have clear evidence they have done something. International fraud is complex and time consuming That is for the authorities in the place where the crime was committed. Sometimes it is in more than one place.

Any way of you leave the EU without a deal you may well find EU crims hiding in the UK and UK crims hiding in Europe because that reciprocal arrangement will stop. Remember UK crims legally hiding in the Spanish costas? Well you can have it again if you wish.

https://senioreuropeanexperts.org/wp...for-the-eu.pdf


BTW this was back in th e 1990's and was never taken up.
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07-07-2018, 11:21 PM
114

Re: Why Won't You Walk Away, Mrs May?

Originally Posted by Flicker ->
That is why the EU didn't interfere with Spain and Catalonia.
Errrr nope. The EU doesn't want Catalonia being independent so it stood by whilst Spain did what it did to the Catalonians which included incarcerating political activists. Doing so is against EU and international Law but the EU simply stood by whilst Spain did it. This is a glimpse into the future of an EU totalitarian federal state. Speaking out against the EU, disagreeing, protesting will result in imprisonments. That's Corpus Juris for you. Quash any dissent, lock em up, no jury no trial. The stuff or Orwell's 1984.

Originally Posted by Flicker ->
Your post about habeas corpus has to do with the rules around extradition and holding suspects believed to be involved ONLY in financial crime/fraud before sending them back to where the crime was committed.
lol wat?!

Habeas Corpus has been around since 1679 you numpty. Financial fraud wasn't in existence then. Habeas is a most basic and fundamental principle that states you simply can not imprison someone unlawfully. That's it. It is far reaching and our most fundamental right.

At times in history Habeas Corpus has been suspended.

"It was suspended in 1793 when there were concerns that the French Revolution might inspire rebellion in England. It was also suspended several times in the 20th century. Internment (detention without charge) was employed in World War I and II, and during many periods of the conflict in Northern Ireland in the later 20th century. Today, detention without charge is back on the political agenda in the debates surrounding anti-terror legislation."

http://www.bl.uk/learning/timeline/item104236.html


In short, only totalitarian governments would remove from the people this most basic of human rights. The right to be free unless proven guilty of a crime.
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07-07-2018, 11:44 PM
115

Re: Why Won't You Walk Away, Mrs May?

Originally Posted by JBR ->
She comes out of this sounding very dictatorial, doesn't she? She must be very sure of herself, and probably hasn't heard that she has quite likely signed her own death warrant and that of her party.
Still not understanding the situation JBR.

All these politicians, whether Conservative or Labour are bought and owned by the EU. They are all stooges for that wider power, acting out parts scripted for them by their masters to give people like you the illusion that there exists a political choice, that voting for Tory or Labour makes a difference. It doesn't, the entire set up is a total sham.

So May is simply doing what she is being instructed to do, as is Corbyn. The EU is NOT going to let the UK leave, not after taking 40 years to assimilate the UK into the EU by stealth and using fraudulent politicians. It just isn't going to let all that work go to waste. May is doing what she has been told to do, which to all intents and purposes is to delay, delay and delay so that the EU can work on changing public perception through propaganda and control of the media. When the time is right, they will engineer the circumstances for a second referendum but only is they are certain the populous will vote to stay in the EU.

There's no real democracy here and people need to wake up and see that. Ensuring we continue to vote for BrExit is the way we prove this to ourselves.
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08-07-2018, 12:09 AM
116

Re: Why Won't You Walk Away, Mrs May?

Originally Posted by Realist ->
Still not understanding the situation JBR.

Ensuring we continue to vote for BrExit is the way we prove this to ourselves.
I'm sure you're right, Realist. There are many things I don't understand, including your profound belief in thermography as the answer to all of the world's problems!

Certainly, given half a chance I would vote for Brexit and continue to vote for it for as long as I live.

Unfortunately, having voted for it once, it appears that our voting for it carries absolutely no weight as far as our glorious leaders are concerned.

May wants to remain; the majority of her cabinet wants to remain, and the minority of the cabinet who want to leave are too afraid to say so.

So tell me, what is the point of us voting for Brexit again... and again... and again... ad infinitum?
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08-07-2018, 10:53 AM
117

Re: Why Won't You Walk Away, Mrs May?

I note Realist is still working to conspiracy theories and opinion and therefore can conspire any explanation he so chooses. He has absolutely no proof that
"The EU doesn't want Catalonia being independent so it stood by whilst Spain did what it did to the Catalonians which included incarcerating political activists. Doing so is against EU and international Law but the EU simply stood by whilst Spain did it."

Just what EU and international law allows the EU and international bodies to interfere with national issues?? Please quote them or find a link.

Second whether habeus corpus has been suspended before is irrelevant. It wasn't and the policy JRB referred to was merely a research paper by a handful of legal experts to try to get round the one issue of international fraud.
Either someone sold JRB a pup or he completely misunderstood it.
So what is new amongst Leavers?

OH I know...ridiculous statements like this because someone can't read:

"Habeas Corpus has been around since 1679 you numpty. Financial fraud wasn't in existence then. "


I never said HC was devised because of financial fraud you numpty. I said the Corpus Judis was an effort to control financial fraud.

sigh
 
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