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21-11-2020, 01:23 AM
31

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by realspeed ->
Part exchange a petrol car for electric wont be worth doing, who would buy a car that can't be used
Good point, though of course there's no reason why a petrol car couldn't be used. There will still be millions of them around and, consequently, there will still be filling stations and mechanics willing to work on them.

In any event, I'm sure the government are going to end up with egg on their faces!
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21-11-2020, 02:33 AM
32

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Thanks to AT and others for their explanations.

There is no doubt that things are going to change. The problem (as I see it) is that there doesn't appear to be any huge commencement in progress which this change is going to require which, given the timescale being talked about, one would assume would already be under way.
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21-11-2020, 04:58 AM
33

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by Emjay ->
Oh what a wonderful future we all dream about. How I would love an electric car just for starters, and I could afford afford to buy one today if I really wanted to.
But although in fairly good health at the age of 82. What is the odds of me seeing all this in the future?
Our age group already has the finest choice of electric vehicles. You could pop down to the shops and get one with your loose change.

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21-11-2020, 10:54 AM
34

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
Our age group already has the finest choice of electric vehicles. You could pop down to the shops and get one with your loose change.

I still have one of those in my garage. The other 3 that ‘She’ had were sold. ( you may ask why did ‘she’ need 4?)
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21-11-2020, 11:21 AM
35

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Good point, though of course there's no reason why a petrol car couldn't be used. There will still be millions of them around and, consequently, there will still be filling stations and mechanics willing to work on them.

In any event, I'm sure the government are going to end up with egg on their faces!
Perhaps the government are already realising this when there is talk of bringing in 'road pricing', something that has been attempted for the last 56 years, according to the news item on the link below.

The lost tax as more electric vehicles are used means less revenue from fuel tax, that has to come from some other source, perhaps from 'road pricing'.

Edmund King, president of the AA, said that while electric vehicles were good for the environment, they are less so for the Exchequer.

He said: “The Government can’t afford to lose £40bn from fuel duty and car tax when the electric revolution arrives."


https://www.itv.com/news/2020-11-16/...llion-tax-hole
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21-11-2020, 11:33 AM
36

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by Baz46 ->
Perhaps the government are already realising this when there is talk of bringing in 'road pricing', something that has been attempted for the last 56 years, according to the news item on the link below.

The lost tax as more electric vehicles are used means less revenue from fuel tax, that has to come from some other source, perhaps from 'road pricing'.

Edmund King, president of the AA, said that while electric vehicles were good for the environment, they are less so for the Exchequer.

He said: “The Government can’t afford to lose £40bn from fuel duty and car tax when the electric revolution arrives."


https://www.itv.com/news/2020-11-16/...llion-tax-hole
Good point Baz!
But l suppose once theyve established the electric system they will
simply transfer the taxation to that and ban cars alltogether?

Donkeyman! 😟😟
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21-11-2020, 11:55 AM
37

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
Because our joint comprises of a group of very old cottages knocked into one it makes sense for us to have heat pumps in order to heat the rooms that we don't live in less than the rooms that we do. No other reason. We happen to use the heat source from underground but other than running cost heat pumps can extract heat from air. The clue is in the word pump.

Do fuel cells need a catalyst? Most do but it's no big deal and is not a liquid catalyst in the case of a hydrogen / air or oxygen fuel cell. Platinum is a typical catalyst but this will change to others such as rhodium or various other materials are becoming available but at lower cost than platinum just as taking place in the case of vehicle catalytic converters.

As for sidecar uses - nothing in the least way funny about that - it's an absolute certainty.
You omitted to answer my concerns about the use of heat pumps
in heavily populated towns and cities Todge??
And it seems that the catylists you mention happen to be rare
materials?
The lower cost materials you mention will soar in price once
demand builds up due to the influence of capitalism ??

Donkeyman! 😀😀

PS. Im still laughing about the sidecars!!
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21-11-2020, 12:55 PM
38

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
You omitted to answer my concerns about the use of heat pumps
in heavily populated towns and cities Todge??
And it seems that the catylists you mention happen to be rare
materials?
The lower cost materials you mention will soar in price once
demand builds up due to the influence of capitalism ??

Donkeyman! 😀😀

PS. Im still laughing about the sidecars!!
Firstly heat pumps with the heat exchanger to the outside air are already exist and are quite commonly found in Window Rattler air con units. Sorted. Next fuel cell catalysts use little more than in a modern car exhaust cat converter, need be much less robust, and have a life many times that of a modern car cat converter because they don't need to deal with the toxic and corrosive gasses and pulses of exhaust gas.

Next why does the thought of motor bikes with side cars amuse you? Were entering a new society that must of necessity have changes across the board.

Do you remember the BMW Isetta?

A modern version of that format will also be part of the way forward just as a motor cycle with a modern design side car will be a a popular and very viable option. Not an old world Watsonian kind of beast but an upgraded thing.

One certain thing is that bloody great "gas-guzzler" cars will not be churned out and in addition car ownership will become quite a rare thing, certainly much much less than today.
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21-11-2020, 02:00 PM
39

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
Firstly heat pumps with the heat exchanger to the outside air are already exist and are quite commonly found in Window Rattler air con units. Sorted. Next fuel cell catalysts use little more than in a modern car exhaust cat converter, need be much less robust, and have a life many times that of a modern car cat converter because they don't need to deal with the toxic and corrosive gasses and pulses of exhaust gas.

Next why does the thought of motor bikes with side cars amuse you? Were entering a new society that must of necessity have changes across the board.

Do you remember the BMW Isetta?

A modern version of that format will also be part of the way forward just as a motor cycle with a modern design side car will be a a popular and very viable option. Not an old world Watsonian kind of beast but an upgraded thing.

One certain thing is that bloody great "gas-guzzler" cars will not be churned out and in addition car ownership will become quite a rare thing, certainly much much less than today.
Oh yes , l remember the Issetta very well, l rode 10 miles on the back
" Bumper" of my mates one night , cant say l thought much of it?
Too dangerous and strenuous for my liking !!
I also know about motorbike and sidecars as l drove a Vincent
Rapide and Jet 80 sports outfit to Athens and back again long ago !!
So l am well used to the handling characterisrics of such a beast?
And l cant see them entering into general usage ??
You still have not answered my query about heat pump use in
congested cities ??
I am still chuckling slightly !!

Donkeyman! 👍😀👍
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21-11-2020, 02:32 PM
40

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by Dextrous63 ->
Thanks to AT and others for their explanations.

There is no doubt that things are going to change. The problem (as I see it) is that there doesn't appear to be any huge commencement in progress which this change is going to require which, given the timescale being talked about, one would assume would already be under way.
Indeed. More windmills are not going to cut it.
We need several new nuclear power stations, quickly - and not built by the Chinese.
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