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05-06-2019, 07:31 PM
131

Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
In any case, it is a good deal from a EU point of view. Since you are still a member, and might be for some time, the UK benefits from it too.

I agree however, it bodes badly for the UK should the UK negotiators have to take on those of the EU. As SF says, japan is a bigger economy than you, and you define the deal they got from the EU as.....?

Not for Japan it isnt

Canada doesn't benefit the UK either... only by 0.1% at the most. The only people these FTAs benefit are the French and the germans.

We have to pay 10 billion a year for our free trade deal.... another catastrophe.
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06-06-2019, 05:34 AM
132

Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Originally Posted by Bread ->
My mum could get a better deal than what Japan ended up with. Its all one sided - the EU get tarrif free imports into Japan and Japan get "cheaper goods" - which they wont because all the EU members states will do is increase the costs to be below what they would have been originally including the tarrif (like they do with everyone else in the block).

Meanwhile, Japan get cheaper German cars while the tarrifs on Japanese cars still apply from the EU until 2027.

What on earth were they thinking ?

Then to top it all off, this came into practice in 2019 when Japan knew we were leaving the EU so they might end up with tariffs on their cars made from the UK .... (although I suspect it won't make any difference to relocating the car plants as it would be more expensive to do that that than to live with the tarrif - and besides they may get to sell more cars tarrif free to the rest of the world if we get better deals with everyone else).

All on a "promise" that Japan "might" increase it's GDP as a result.

I'm coming round to thinking we might be better off with WTO terms and adjusting our tariffs when we need to.

If someone who worked for me signed a deal like that they would get fired on the spot.

I'll have a look at CETA next in a bit more depth - I smell a rat ha ha..

I agree with you though, our career politicians haven't a clue about trade agreements and how to negotiate. Thats why I would want a Tory/Brexit Party alliance so we can leverage business leaders to help us get the best deals.

EDIT

Here is how CETA benefits the UK. In short, not much.

Seems its another trade agreement based around French agriculture and German cars..... thanks Juncker !

https://assets.publishing.service.go...he_UK_2010.pdf
That’s just a speculative paper on what may be fro 2010

The Parliament briefing paper is more informative

This link is to the summery version where you can download the full version

https://researchbriefings.parliament...mmary/CBP-7492

The main concern seems to be that the deal gives more power to Buisiness and the right to sue governments
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06-06-2019, 05:47 AM
133

Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
In any case, it is a good deal from a EU point of view. Since you are still a member, and might be for some time, the UK benefits from it too.

I agree however, it bodes badly for the UK should the UK negotiators have to take on those of the EU. As SF says, japan is a bigger economy than you, and you define the deal they got from the EU as.....?
Those who think we can negotiate better deals on our own are in denial of reality. The abject failure of Liam fox to obtain commitments from all but a few countries should have opened their eyes to the truth. But it seems that truth and reality are an just an inconvenience to the dogma of Brexit.
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06-06-2019, 07:15 AM
134

Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Originally Posted by Banchory ->
Those who think we can negotiate better deals on our own are in denial of reality. The abject failure of Liam fox to obtain commitments from all but a few countries should have opened their eyes to the truth. But it seems that truth and reality are an just an inconvenience to the dogma of Brexit.

There is no reason not to enter in to a trade deal with the UK for any nation, there is no down side, so it stands to reason that we will evntually negotiate deals with every nation. The EU are 27 out of 200 or so nations on this planet so there is plenty of trade to engage in.

Those nations that are first to sign up( something they can't do until we Leave, as you well know by now) will secure good deals with the UK and will benefit from opening the door to the 5th/6th largest economy in the World. There will be great opportunities for UK businesses to enter new market places and for young people to travel the World within their career paths.

There really is very little of a down side to Leaving the EU Empire......Bring it On!
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06-06-2019, 07:55 AM
135

Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Originally Posted by Moscow ->
There is no reason not to enter in to a trade deal with the UK for any nation, there is no down side, so it stands to reason that we will evntually negotiate deals with every nation. The EU are 27 out of 200 or so nations on this planet so there is plenty of trade to engage in.

Those nations that are first to sign up( something they can't do until we Leave, as you well know by now) will secure good deals with the UK and will benefit from opening the door to the 5th/6th largest economy in the World. There will be great opportunities for UK businesses to enter new market places and for young people to travel the World within their career paths.

There really is very little of a down side to Leaving the EU Empire......Bring it On!
An admirable aspiration however as Liam Fox has discovered it’s not quite as easy as that and whilst no doubt we will enter into free trade deals certainly won’t get as good deals as we currently have being a member of the EU, the largest trading bloc in the world, particularly with the established and emerging nations

As for opportunities for our young, I think the voting demographics indicates their feelings on the matter

So all in all there quite a big downside to leaving the EU as the far right / popularist parties have realised across Europe and have moved to wanting to reform the EU rather than leaving
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06-06-2019, 09:21 AM
136

Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Originally Posted by Banchory ->
That’s just a speculative paper on what may be fro 2010

The Parliament briefing paper is more informative

This link is to the summery version where you can download the full version

https://researchbriefings.parliament...mmary/CBP-7492

The main concern seems to be that the deal gives more power to Buisiness and the right to sue governments
That Parliament Briefing Paper echos pretty much what is in the document I put up before, that we do about £700 million a year with Canada in trade - not much really.

The EU FTA's are there to benefit France and Germany, I've said this time and time again.

An FTA between the UK and the EU would benefit us much, much more than the EU-JAPAN, EU-CANADA or EU-SINGAPORE agreements would ever do, even if you put them all together. The priority should be USA and EU for us, the rest of them don't really make much difference (maybe Japan but most of their cars, (for example) are manufactured here anyway for our market.

An FTA negotiated as a block can never benefit all members the same. If we were a country like Spain that is beneficiary of EU contributions then I would see the increased sale of German cars and French wine as a good thing - I would be clapping my hands because it means more money for me. However, because the UK is a net contributor we don't see the same benefit.We still put in the same amount ...
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06-06-2019, 09:32 AM
137

Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Originally Posted by Banchory ->
An admirable aspiration however as Liam Fox has discovered it’s not quite as easy as that and whilst no doubt we will enter into free trade deals certainly won’t get as good deals as we currently have being a member of the EU, the largest trading bloc in the world, particularly with the established and emerging nations

As for opportunities for our young, I think the voting demographics indicates their feelings on the matter

So all in all there quite a big downside to leaving the EU as the far right / popularist parties have realised across Europe and have moved to wanting to reform the EU rather than leaving

Fake news
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06-06-2019, 12:33 PM
138

Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Originally Posted by Moscow ->
There is no reason not to enter in to a trade deal with the UK for any nation, there is no down side, so it stands to reason that we will eventually negotiate deals with every nation. The EU are 27 out of 200 or so nations on this planet so there is plenty of trade to engage in.

Those nations that are first to sign up( something they can't do until we Leave, as you well know by now) will secure good deals with the UK and will benefit from opening the door to the 5th/6th largest economy in the World. There will be great opportunities for UK businesses to enter new market places and for young people to travel the World within their career paths.

There really is very little of a down side to Leaving the EU Empire......Bring it On!
Urm! thought I'd mentioned this before, in fact I know I have, but just for you we ALREADY that's ALREADY trade with most of the countries in the world as can be seen from the list.

United States $59.09B 2017
Germany $46.64B 2017
France $32.86B 2017
Netherlands $27.43B 2017
Ireland $24.90B 2017
China $21.45B 2017
Switzerland $20.25B 2017
Belgium $17.77B 2017
Spain $13.46B 2017
Italy $13.19B 2017
United Arab Emirates $9.61B 2017
Turkey $9.55B 2017
Hong Kong $9.32B 2017
South Korea $7.48B 2017
Japan $7.35B 2017
Sweden $6.80B 2017
Poland $6.41B 2017
Canada $6.22B 2017
Singapore $6.20B 2017
Australia $5.76B 2017
Saudi Arabia $5.40B 2017
India $5.24B 2017
Norway $3.85B 2017
Russia $3.69B 2017
Denmark $3.53B 2017
Qatar $3.11B 2017
Czech Republic $2.74B 2017
South Africa $2.73B 2017
Austria $2.43B 2017
Oman $2.38B 2017
Brazil $2.32B 2017
Portugal $2.03B 2017
Mexico $1.99B 2017
Hungary $1.86B 2017
Malaysia $1.82B 2017
Finland $1.76B 2017
Thailand $1.61B 2017
Romania $1.59B 2017
Egypt $1.56B 2017
Israel $1.54B 2017
Nigeria $1.44B 2017
Greece $1.26B 2017
New Zealand $1.11B 2017
Macedonia $1.02B 2017
Indonesia $1.00B 2017
Morocco $992.52M 2017
Pakistan $882.19M 2017
Kuwait $795.25M 2017
Slovakia $775.09M 2017
Chile $771.36M 2017
Vietnam $744.83M 2017
Lithuania $712.71M 2017
Philippines $681.93M 2017
Malta $656.85M 2017
Bahrain $635.54M 2017
Colombia $587.19M 2017
Bulgaria $585.90M 2017
Ukraine $523.89M 2017
Iceland $510.82M 2017
Angola $492.56M 2017
Gibraltar $490.48M 2017
Cyprus $488.63M 2017
Ghana $488.26M 2017
Lebanon $475.31M 2017
Latvia $455.27M 2017
Argentina $447.75M 2017
Jordan $446.96M 2017
Kenya $442.49M 2017
Algeria $429.30M 2017
Iraq $419.13M 2017
Slovenia $350.81M 2017
Luxembourg $339.03M 2017
Estonia $325.55M 2017
Ethiopia $309.85M 2017
Bangladesh $303.19M 2017
Kazakhstan $295.84M 2017
Iran $291.20M 2017
Azerbaijan $286.98M 2017
Senegal $255.47M 2017
Croatia $244.69M 2017
Libya $240.19M 2017
Sri Lanka $240.01M 2017
Peru $229.84M 2017
Uruguay $227.30M 2017
Tunisia $193.07M 2017
Serbia $192.36M 2017
Panama $175.05M 2017
Belarus $164.26M 2017
Bermuda $146.43M 2017
Ivory Coast $143.19M 2017
Trinidad And Tobago $138.89M 2017
Dominican Republic $129.16M 2017
Georgia $126.42M 2017
Ecuador $126.02M 2017
Tanzania $114.07M 2017
Mauritius $104.97M 2017
Sudan $101.23M 2017
Jamaica $97.36M 2017
Costa Rica $88.62M 2017
Venezuela $85.95M 2017
Brunei $82.78M 2017
Zambia $77.10M 2017
Republic of the Congo $74.55M 2017
Macau $68.81M 2017
undefined $58.20M 2017
Uganda $56.75M 2017
Barbados $56.45M 2017
Cameroon $55.65M 2017
Namibia $54.98M 2017
Moldova $53.61M 2017
Gabon $53.44M 2017
Mali $51.75M 2017
Togo $48.14M 2017
Turkmenistan $47.60M 2017
Cambodia $47.44M 2017
Yemen $46.72M 2017
Cayman Islands $46.12M 2017
Guatemala $45.30M 2017
Paraguay $42.78M 2017
Guyana $40.82M 2017
Sierra Leone $40.16M 2017
Myanmar $38.72M 2017
Zimbabwe $38.04M 2017
Uzbekistan $37.94M 2017
Botswana $37.89M 2017
Bahamas $37.69M 2017
Aruba $36.09M 2017
Bosnia And Herzegovina $35.17M 2017
Gambia $34.63M 2017
Mongolia $33.95M 2017
Madagascar $33.87M 2017
Equatorial Guinea $32.48M 2017
Cuba $31.96M 2017
Seychelles $30.65M 2017
British Virgin Islands $30.09M 2017
Congo $29.28M 2017
Papua New Guinea $29.21M 2017
Mozambique $28.53M 2017
Guinea $28.28M 2017
El Salvador $27.65M 2017
Afghanistan $27.04M 2017
Faroe Islands $26.69M 2017
Saint Lucia $25.43M 2017
Bolivia $24.33M 2017
Albania $24.16M 2017
Benin $22.87M 2017
Antigua and Barbuda $21.54M 2017
Haiti $21.16M 2017
Belize $20.54M 2017
St Helena $20.20M 2017
Liberia $18.89M 2017
Mauritania $18.78M 2017
New Caledonia $18.31M 2017
Maldives $18.22M 2017
Fiji $18.05M 2017
Malawi $17.79M 2017
Montenegro $17.54M 2017
Samoa $16.83M 2017
St Vincent and the Grenadines $16.01M 2017
Somalia $15.13M 2017
Suriname $14.25M 2017
Honduras $14.13M 2017
Armenia $14.01M 2017
Djibouti $13.57M 2017
Curacao $13.50M 2017
Nepal $13.19M 2017
Grenada $12.98M 2017
Burkina Faso $12.94M 2017
Laos $11.82M 2017
Rwanda $11.77M 2017
Syria $11.44M 2017
Dominica $10.66M 2017
Andorra $10.05M 2017
Chad $9.43M 2017
St Kitts and Nevis $9.36M 2017
French Polynesia $9.09M 2017
Nicaragua $8.61M 2017
Niger $8.47M 2017
Kyrgyzstan $8.12M 2017
Saint Maarten $8.02M 2017
San Marino $7.38M 2017
Palestine $7.25M 2017
Greenland $4.29M 2017
undefined $3.89M 2017
Turks and Caicos Isds $3.83M 2017
Sao Tome And Principe $3.67M 2017
Swaziland $3.67M 2017
Burundi $3.66M 2017
South Sudan $3.10M 2017
Cape Verde $2.67M 2017
Bonaire $2.57M 2017
Montserrat $2.01M 2017
Bhutan $1.90M 2017
Niue $1.76M 2017
Central African Republic $1.66M 2017
Comoros $1.54M 2017
undefined $1.45M 2017
Eritrea $1.35M 2017
Saint Barthélemy $1.26M 2017
Lesotho $1.23M 2017
Tonga $1.21M 2017
Tajikistan $1.16M 2017
Marshall Islands $1.16M 2017
Pitcairn Islands $1.00M 2017
Guinea Bissau $929.57K 2017
Vanuatu $928.04K 2017
undefined $904.04K 2017
Northern Mariana Islands $736.13K 2017
Anguilla $717.90K 2017
undefined $614.08K 2017
Solomon Islands $572.38K 2017
FS Micronesia $393.49K 2017
East Timor $291.43K 2017
North Korea $279.82K 2017
Cocos Keeling Islands $271.62K 2017
undefined $220.78K 2017
Kiribati $205.80K 2017
Palau $162.97K 2017
Heard Island and McDonald Islands $116.81K 2017
French Southern and Antarctic Lands $89.41K 2017
undefined $49.22K 2017
British Indian Ocean Territory $43.61K 2017
Cook Islands $38.90K 2017
Christmas Island $36.56K 2017
undefined $36.5K 2017
Wallis and Futuna $30.33K 2017
Western Sahara $27.96K 2017
Tuvalu $5.19K 2017
Norfolk Island $5.11K 2017
St Pierre and Miquelon $4.89K 2017
Mayotte $1.63M 2013
South Sandwich Islands $55.88K 2012
Netherlands Antilles $73.19M 2010
Tokelau $12.54M 2010
Serbia and Montenegro $105.08M 2005
US Misc. Pacific Islands $5.50M 1999
Reunion $23.99M 1995
Martinique $21.77M 1995
Guadeloupe $10.57M 1995
French Guiana $3.67M 1995
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06-06-2019, 12:55 PM
139

Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

And ?
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06-06-2019, 01:21 PM
140

Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Originally Posted by Moscow ->
1. Those nations that are first to sign up( something they can't do until we Leave, as you well know by now)

2. There really is very little of a down side to Leaving the EU Empire......Bring it On!
1. Every nation that wants to trade with you can now sign a deal that enters into action on (the unspecified) date of brexit. There are two possible explanation for their lack of interest to sign on with the UK.
A. Their needs are already fulfilled by the deal they still have with the EU. The products from the UK are not unique, so the existing deal they have with the EU will have to be honoured. If the EU cannot fulfill that with UKproducts (after brexit) other EUmembers will have to increase their production. In short, the tradepartners of the EU have no need to close a deal with the UK, and other EU members benefit from brexit.
B. Other countries still are not sure the UK will actually leave the EU. So why spent money on negotiations on deals that will never enter into action?

2. That's correct. For the EU, that is.
 
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