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21-04-2020, 04:05 PM
11

Re: A Question Please.

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
Will the CTA end if Southern Ireland eventually joins the Schengen Area? I sincerely hope so.
Does anyone have any knowledge of the above, or are my worries groundless?
The Common Travel Area arrangement began in 1922, and it is now contained in legislation. It was an understanding between Ireland and the UK based on their common history and the difficulties applying immigration controls because of the shared border. Over time, some of the rights came to be included in different pieces of legislation in both Ireland and the UK.

The UK’s withdrawal from the European Union (EU) will not affect the rights of Irish citizens and UK citizens within the Common Travel Area. The withdrawal agreement between the UK and the European Union recognises the Common Travel Area in its Protocol, which deals with Ireland and Northern Ireland. Article 2 provides for the continued operation of the Common Travel Area.

Should ireland enter schengen, that would be no problem for the cta. The situation would be the same as the present nordic passport union.
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21-04-2020, 04:09 PM
12

Re: A Question Please.

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
The Common Travel Area arrangement began in 1922, and it is now contained in legislation. It was an understanding between Ireland and the UK based on their common history and the difficulties applying immigration controls because of the shared border. Over time, some of the rights came to be included in different pieces of legislation in both Ireland and the UK.

The UK’s withdrawal from the European Union (EU) will not affect the rights of Irish citizens and UK citizens within the Common Travel Area. The withdrawal agreement between the UK and the European Union recognises the Common Travel Area in its Protocol, which deals with Ireland and Northern Ireland. Article 2 provides for the continued operation of the Common Travel Area.
For God's sake Solly, make your mind up. What you have posted here is, more or less, exactly what Bread has posted on Page 1 of this thread and YOU disagreed with.
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21-04-2020, 04:26 PM
13

Re: A Question Please.

Originally Posted by Percy Vere ->
For God's sake Solly, make your mind up. What you have posted here is, more or less, exactly what Bread has posted on Page 1 of this thread and YOU disagreed with.
Nope, bread said NI would need passport controls when ROI enters schengen. It doesn't make a difference for the present situation.
The border between NI and ROI is now open for citizens of NI and ROI, but is closed for all others (anD who maintains that?). When ROI enters schengen its borders open for other schengen members. The border between ROI and NI stays open for NI and ROI citizens, it stays closed for all others.
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21-04-2020, 05:27 PM
14

Re: A Question Please.

Surely if S.I. joins Schengen, then there will be no choice other than to have some form of border control between the North and the South.
When S.I. joined right after the UK, and the UK refused to join Schengen, that was the only reason S.I. also refused because the CTA was too important to be lost.
I refuse to believe that citizens from all member states will continue to be able to travel freely between the South and North if and when S.I. joins Schengen, because Solly, what you are basically saying is that if they did, then the UK is going to continue with CTA AND allow freedom of movement in N.I. which is part of the UK

Surely again, this will never be allowed to happen?
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21-04-2020, 05:43 PM
15

Re: A Question Please.

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
Nope, bread said NI would need passport controls when ROI enters schengen. It doesn't make a difference for the present situation.
The border between NI and ROI is now open for citizens of NI and ROI, but is closed for all others (anD who maintains that?). When ROI enters schengen its borders open for other schengen members. The border between ROI and NI stays open for NI and ROI citizens, it stays closed for all others.

No it doesn't because NI is NOT in schengen. You don't understand the difference between Schengen and the common travel area.

Your hilarious
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21-04-2020, 06:20 PM
16

Re: A Question Please.

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
Surely if S.I. joins Schengen, then there will be no choice other than to have some form of border control between the North and the South.
When S.I. joined right after the UK, and the UK refused to join Schengen, that was the only reason S.I. also refused because the CTA was too important to be lost.
I refuse to believe that citizens from all member states will continue to be able to travel freely between the South and North if and when S.I. joins Schengen, because Solly, what you are basically saying is that if they did, then the UK is going to continue with CTA AND allow freedom of movement in N.I. which is part of the UK

Surely again, this will never be allowed to happen?
There is a schengen border between Gibraltar and Spain. The same would apply to the Ireland of Ireland
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21-04-2020, 07:08 PM
17

Re: A Question Please.

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
Surely if S.I. joins Schengen, then there will be no choice other than to have some form of border control between the North and the South.
When S.I. joined right after the UK, and the UK refused to join Schengen, that was the only reason S.I. also refused because the CTA was too important to be lost.
I refuse to believe that citizens from all member states will continue to be able to travel freely between the South and North if and when S.I. joins Schengen, because Solly, what you are basically saying is that if they did, then the UK is going to continue with CTA AND allow freedom of movement in N.I. which is part of the UK

Surely again, this will never be allowed to happen?
That is not what I said. Travelling freely by citizens of ROI and UK between NI and ROI (no passports) is now limited to citizens of these countries. Citizens from other countries can not. A third country national, for example, may be refused permission to enter Ireland if they intend to travel onwards to the UK and they would not qualify for admission to the UK under the*Aliens (Amendment) Order 1975.

The moment ROI signs up to schengen, citizens from all other schengen countries are free to travel to ROI. But they cannot travel on to the UK. Under schengen citizens of the ROI can still travel freely to NI and the rest of the UK under the cta arrangement.
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21-04-2020, 07:26 PM
18

Re: A Question Please.

Originally Posted by Bread ->
There is a schengen border between Gibraltar and Spain.

The same would apply to the Ireland of Ireland
The difference with irish situation being the cta.
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22-04-2020, 10:03 AM
19

Re: A Question Please.

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
The difference with irish situation being the cta.
I'm pointing out a Schengen border.

There is one between Gibraltar and Spain .... keep up !
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22-04-2020, 02:19 PM
20

Re: A Question Please.

Originally Posted by Bread ->
I'm pointing out a Schengen border.

There is one between Gibraltar and Spain .... keep up !
That's nice, as mrs brown would say. But is it comparable with the irish situation? I think not, I think not. So it doesn't apply.

Let me help you understand. The ROI can be in schengen without violating the pre existing cta.
You can compare it to the nordic passport union. That exists since the 19fifties. In 2001 five of them entered schengen, creating a schengenborder with faroe. The schengen restrictions do not apply on the free travel by citizens of faroe and the other nordic countries.

This proves that, contrary to what you stated, ireland can enter schengen without violating the good friday agreement.
 
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