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08-10-2019, 08:41 PM
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They Said that an EU Army Wouldn't Happen

DT World News, today, has this article about the "need to build the EU Army.

I seem to remember some remainers saying that the EU had no intention of so doing!

Quote from DT "The EU must have more troops and be prepared to use them across the globe, the bloc’s incoming foreign affairs chief has told the European Parliament.

Josep Borrell, who is nominated to be the EU’s next chief diplomat, said that Europe could not allow itself to become “irrelevant” on a world stage dominated by superpowers such as the US and China.

“We have the instruments to play power politics,” he said at a European Parliament hearing into his candidacy to head up the EU foreign affairs service, “The EU has to learn to use the language of power.”

“We should reinforce the EU’s international role and further our military capacity to act,” the 72-year-old Spanish socialist added.

“We should pool our national sovereignties together to multiply the power of individual member states,” Mr Borrell said, "I am convinced that if we don't act together Europe will become irrelevant."

Mr Borrell called for the numbers of EU troops that could be deployed to be raised to at least 55-60,000. He said the 60,000 target was first set in 1999 by EU leaders after the Balkan war.

The EU does have “battlegroups” of 3,000 soldiers from across the EU on standby every six months but these have never been used and would require the unanimous support of every member state before they could be.

Mr Borrell said the EU had to speak with a unified "truly integrated" foreign policy voice on the world stage. He said the total defence spend in the EU was half the GDP of Belgium and more than in China and Russia.

But that spending did not translate into military capacity because it was fragmented among the EU member countries, Mr Borrell said.

He backed EU plans for pooling defence research projects. Some critics have accused those plans of being a stepping stone towards a future EU Army. "
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08-10-2019, 08:45 PM
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Re: They Said that an EU Army Wouldn't Happen

Further to my earlier post:-

"FAQ | European joint defence force
Why an EU army?
The structural integration of the European Union’s armed forces has been a long-standing strategic ambition of the EU, with the latest initiative being based on the 2009 Lisbon Treaty.

Why not sooner?
The United Kingdom, Europe’s pre-eminent military power, blocked this, fearing the creation of a Europe-wide army. However, post-Brexit we have no say in the matter and the EU has pushed ahead with plans.

A resurgent Russia and the election of Donald Trump, on a platform attacking Nato, may have lent a sense of urgency to the process. The Permanent Structured Cooperation (Pesco) was initiated in 2017.

Which countries would be involved?
The UK is exempted, Denmark and Malta have opted out. All 25 other European Union members are committed. Initial plans envisaged countries such as France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Poland creating permanent military structures to act on behalf of the EU and for the deployment of the EU's battle groups and 18 national battalions. It could also comprise an EU military planning and operations headquarters in Brussels that would parallel Nato.

What stage is it at?
Initial plans to try and boost EU defence spending, and save money by pooling resources, include exempting defence equipment manufacturers from paying VAT, and applying EU research grants to the sector.

Anything else?
Pesco has the backing of Nato. However, France and Germany currently disagree on the project’s ultimate goal. France would like a tightly-integrated military force, ready to rapidly intervene in global trouble spots. Germany wants a broad coalition across all EU member states, building defensive unity against potential attack."
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08-10-2019, 08:57 PM
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Re: They Said that an EU Army Wouldn't Happen

Originally Posted by Tedc ->
Further to my earlier post:-
Anything else?
Pesco has the backing of Nato. However, France and Germany currently disagree on the project’s ultimate goal. France would like a tightly-integrated military force, ready to rapidly intervene in global trouble spots. Germany wants a broad coalition across all EU member states, building defensive unity against potential attack."
However, the UK’s role with respect to European defence post-Brexit
remains uncertain. The Government has stated that UK support for
European defence and security is unconditional and as such has
expressed the desire to see continued participation as a third country in
CSDP operations, and in capabilities development and defence industrial
cooperation through PESCO and the EDF.
This intention to maintain
close defence cooperation with the EU has been welcomed by many
observers, although many Brexiteers have expressed concern,
suggesting that the Government’s approach fails to deliver on the
promise of Brexit and that the UK will be permanently tied to EU
defence structures and principles, over which it will have no say.

https://researchbriefings.files.parl...6/CBP-8216.pdf
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08-10-2019, 09:54 PM
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Re: They Said that an EU Army Wouldn't Happen

Blair said the EU was not about peace, but about power. Probably the only thing he got right.

It seems to me that things are being looked at through a different lens.
Why after all these years of relative peace ,are minds now concentrating on an EU fighting force ?

Why do we need 60,000 ground troops when wars are said to be fought in a different way such as missile carrying drones ?

What good would 60,000 troops be when the SDF (those that Trump has just stabbed in the back, and the same who have fought against Assad's SAA along with some other nasty factions, and the same who now want to re-join Assad's SAA because they are looking after their own skins.) have 45,000 troops on their own ?

Maybe the numbers could be raised by Germany joining in, but I believe they are conveniently still not allowed to 'fight'.... since the WWII.
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08-10-2019, 10:39 PM
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Re: They Said that an EU Army Wouldn't Happen

What are the implications of this power on the environment.
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08-10-2019, 10:46 PM
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Re: They Said that an EU Army Wouldn't Happen

Originally Posted by Puddle Duck ->

Maybe the numbers could be raised by Germany joining in, but I believe they are conveniently still not allowed to 'fight'.... since the WWII.
For some apparent reason they may not be allowed to fight but under NATO guidance and the US they are allowed 60 tactical B61 nuclear bombs.. Why I wonder.?

Also once they organise a EU army I have no doubt they will be in charge of all nuclear weapons..
Imagine Hitler will be turning in his grave has Germany rule over Europe without a bullet being fired.
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08-10-2019, 11:04 PM
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Re: They Said that an EU Army Wouldn't Happen

Originally Posted by spitfire ->
What are the implications of this power on the environment.
By 2023 the dutch army must be 30% greener. Less fossile fuel, no more food flown in etc.
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08-10-2019, 11:07 PM
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Re: They Said that an EU Army Wouldn't Happen

Originally Posted by longfellow ->
For some apparent reason they may not be allowed to fight but under NATO guidance and the US they are allowed 60 tactical B61 nuclear bombs.. Why I wonder.?

Also once they organise a EU army I have no doubt they will be in charge of all nuclear weapons..
Imagine Hitler will be turning in his grave has Germany rule over Europe without a bullet being fired.
An EU army of 60.000 would still be outnumbered by the 81.500 UK troops.
Germany has 61.000 men.
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08-10-2019, 11:25 PM
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Re: They Said that an EU Army Wouldn't Happen

Originally Posted by longfellow ->
For some apparent reason they may not be allowed to fight but under NATO guidance and the US they are allowed 60 tactical B61 nuclear bombs.. Why I wonder.?

Also once they organise a EU army I have no doubt they will be in charge of all nuclear weapons..
Imagine Hitler will be turning in his grave has Germany rule over Europe without a bullet being fired.
I think Germany are well on their way to achieving what they set out to do going back to the 1870's a period known as the second industrial revolution , they set up a scheme of rapid industrialisation which led to 'integration' in the Foreign Direct Investment.

The Foreign Direct Investment was an investment in the form of a controlling ownership in a business in one country by an entity based in another country.

This is just the next phase they, as you say, will be in charge of !
Ironic really !! I'm sure Solasch will have a good answer though, he never fails us .
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08-10-2019, 11:39 PM
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Re: They Said that an EU Army Wouldn't Happen

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
By 2023 the dutch army must be 30% greener. Less fossile fuel, no more food flown in etc.
Holland only have 17 million population, they could grow all their own !

What does it mean the Dutch army must be 30% greener ? Is that face paints or cannabis ?
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