Hillsborough Disaster

Well we have now heard the way the police altered statements, to hide the truth in this disaster.
Now the media is baying for the heads of the perpetrators, now I wonder how far this will go.
It is obvious from the statement of one woman officer at the time, that she was told to alter hers even though she protested.
Now it is going right to the top, the heads of police chiefs at the time being called for, now I just wonder if that is the top, or maybe it will go as far as the government of that day.
We have just been told on our local news that at least 25% of the police on duty at the time, are still police officers today.
We are hearing that the police, at the time of the miners trouble are being looked at very closely, stories like if the police then had been investigated Hillsborough might not have happened, I can't see that myself, but watch this space.
At least Cameron has apologised, I thought that would be it, but it does look as though it is going to get terribly messy for someone.

Re: Hillsborough Disaster

Personally I have not got complete faith in our police (likewise politicians). Before you all start shouting at me, while I do believe that the vast majority of the police are OK it is apparent that a sizeable minority are not so eg the officers involved in the Ian Tomlinson case, etc. I expect members of the force to be whiter than white and the senior officers should do their utmost to make sure that is the case- no cover-ups !

Re: Hillsborough Disaster

Alan said :---I expect members of the force to be whiter than white and the senior officers should do their utmost to make sure that is the case- no cover-ups !

We all do Alan, I think the majority are, but obviously it seems to me that it has been top officers ordering others to adjust their statements, but we shall see.
The ones who did alter their statements, will squeal to save their necks, but it will be hard to prove.
The rotten apples have to be removed before the public have faith in them again.

Re: Hillsborough Disaster

There should be no stone unturned Arthur, the people responsible should be finally bought to book. If some of them are no longer with us they should still be identified.

There are still very many questions that have never been answered in relation to the disaster and it is right that they are dealt with first.There are however an awful lot of contributing factors that should have been dealt with years ago.

For example, why did the police decide that the Liverpool supporters should be segregated into the West Stand (Leppings Lane End) when it would have made far more sense - given their vastly greater numbers compared to the Notts Forest fans - to allow them into the Spion Kop ( East End ).

Hillsborough had been used for the FA Cup semi-finals several times and there had been other incidents, indeed both these clubs had met there before in the same competition and problems were reported. Apart from a few entrance changes not a lot else seems to have been done.

I find it very sad and somewhat pernicious that even after all this time the hapless Jack Straw seeks to score political points by laying all the blame for the cover up solely on Thatcher's government.

He like the rest had 13 years to get to the bottom of it but clearly did not. For sure he honoured his pre election pledge to initiate an independent judicial scrutiny to inquire into the disaster. In truth, the parameters and scope of that investigation were as clear as mud, perhaps for a reason?. The Stuart-Smith Scrutiny, as it was called certainly came up with nothing fresh but again did they really look that hard.

Perhaps Mr Straw would have been better to have issued an unequivocal apology on behalf of himself and his government for their failure to get the truth.

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You are right George, but it isn't about scoring political points, it is about getting the whole truth.
This may go back as far as government, we don't know, but whoever gave the order to make junior officers to change their statements should be made to pay, whether retired of not.

Re: Hillsborough Disaster

I’m waiting for it to come out how the police forced the “fans” to push into the ground with no thought for the people already inside. Or how the police forced more than a few to drink more than a little.

There’s now little doubt that a bad situation was mishandled, and the degree of mishandling was hushed up, but it happened at a time when the managing of out of control crowds such as in this case was in its infancy.

If any prosecution of any members of the police force takes place then I hope that prosecutions will also take place of those who did the pushing, drunk or otherwise.

Hillsborough was the scene of a tragedy, especially when it now emerges that tens of people died who might have survived if medical aid had been allowed to reach them, but it was a tragedy from all angles.

What is important now is not so much a vendetta against anyone irrespective of who did or did not do what, but a fresh inquiry into the disaster, the publication of what went wrong, and what has since been done to ensure such a thing never happens again.

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It is clear from your opening paragraph that you have as usual absolutely no idea of what you speak. In this particular case I find your asinine comments as offensive to our football family as they are indicative of why we have had to wait for so long for the real truth to emerge. However, your jaundiced view of everything should come as no surprise given the persona you have carefully cultivated here.

I would have hoped for such a serious and tragic subject, that you as an intelligent person and certainly one of those who as you put it, are capable of “joined up thinking” and / or even average analytical thought" would have embarked on just a little research into the real facts instead of trotting out the usual misinformed narrative. A folorn hope but I guess you already know that.

Out of interest and in stark contrast to you, the stadium entrances are very familiar to me having been there several times over the years. I have also read many articles on the tragedy including the Taylor Report, the Stuart-Smith Scrutiny and also watched several of the videos taken that day.
This weeks report by the Hillsborough Independent Panel is quite weighty but the little I have read thus far dispels once and for all the disgusting myths of drunkeness, out of control crowds and other alleged heinous crimes perpetrated by the 'fans'.

It was Taylor who although noting - on information supplied by the police - that a minority of fans had been drinking concluded that they had not caused the congestion, nor had ‘hooliganism’ played any part in the disaster. The Stuart Smith scrutiny also made a very similar note but again based solely on the police evidence.

The new report shows quite a different story and one many of us have know for a long time.

For clarity, this is just two small paragraphs from the report.

'Consistent with Lord Justice Taylor’s findings, the Panel found no evidence among the vast number of disclosed documents and many hours of video material to verify the serious allegations of exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans. There was no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late at the
stadium and force entry and no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying. Documents show that fans became frustrated by the inadequate response to the unfolding tragedy. The vast majority of fans on the pitch assisted in rescuing and evacuating the injured and the dead.'

'They also show that available evidence was significantly misinterpreted, including an attempt to establish a link between later arrival and drunkenness that was fundamentally flawed. The weight placed on alcohol in the face of objective evidence of a pattern of consumption modest for a leisure event was inappropriate. It has since fuelled persistent and unsustainable assertions about drunken fan behaviour.'

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Just re-read what I wrote.

For example :- "Or how the police forced more than a few to drink more than a little."

Does that say that there was widespread drunkeness? NO. it didn't

And I can well remember the scenes on TV of what the "fans" were doing.

The essence of what I wrote is that if prosecutions are to be sought, then prosecutions should include the more obviously "active" fans.

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In the interests of constructive debate I would normally have suggested that you read at least some of the report by the Hillsborough Independent Panel in order to arrive at a balanced view.
However, I suspect the excercise would not serve your purpose as it would be diametrically opposed to your rather skewed outlook on life. Indeed your extremely vapid response thus far suggests that further discourse from me is entirely pointless.