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Twink55
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Twink55 is offline
Cheshire, England
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08-10-2016, 02:37 PM
21

Re: Flu jabs

Originally Posted by Realist ->
Being diabetic or not in no way alters what the flu jab is and how effective or not it is.



Not true and a poor argument. The more you read the more information you have to make an informed decision. Yes you will read information on both sides of every fence, yes there will be scare stories and yes there will be plain simple data that has been officially reviewed. Sifting through the vailable data is what Due Diligence is all about. Your health is the most imprtant thing in your life. If you aren't going to exercise due diligence there, where will you do it?

To help cut the thread down and prevent it simply repeating past threads on this topic I will happily agree to ignore the issue of Thimerosal in flu jabs.

My primary point here is that the jab is useless. A marketing scam at best and will help only 1 in 100 people. Happy for anyone to put up evidence to the contrary.
Realist, I am not going to argue with you about this. Diabetics are more likely to die from flu, so I prefer to take the option of having the jab. The jab has never harmed me so I prefer to believe that it does work in helping to increase antibodies to help fight the flu. If you choose not to, then it is up to you to make your decision, but I am very happy with the decision that I have made!
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Meg
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08-10-2016, 02:46 PM
22

Re: Flu jabs

Originally Posted by Twink55 ->
Realist, I am not going to argue with you about this. Diabetics are more likely to die from flu, so I prefer to take the option of having the jab. The jab has never harmed me so I prefer to believe that it does work in helping to increase antibodies to help fight the flu. If you choose not to, then it is up to you to make your decision, but I am very happy with the decision that I have made!
Twink I think you are wise to do so as you know, being a diabetic means you are more at risk of serious complication if you get the flu as am I with an existing chest condition.

When deciding to have the vaccination I prefer to listen to the advice given by my doctor, The Center for Disease Control in the USA..
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm

and the NHS ...
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/winterhea...luvaccine.aspx

rather than anyone who posts on a forum.
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Mags
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08-10-2016, 02:57 PM
23

Re: Flu jabs

I have been having the flu jab for 26 years now... starting in 1990 when my parent's doctor advised me to have it due to me being their carer every day. They also had their jabs.

I have also had the flu and wouldn't want to experience that again. I was hallucinating and my husband had to call the doctor out one evening as he was so worried about me. It took almost a month before I could feel strong and well enough to leave the house.

Our son also has the flu jab every year due to him being asthmatic.

Realist, what qualifications do you have? Are you a doctor?
I would sooner be guided by my own doctor ..... or Pats on here.
Realist
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08-10-2016, 04:30 PM
24

Re: Flu jabs

Originally Posted by Twink55 ->
I prefer to believe that it does work
Entirely your choice, same as you are free to believe in Santa Cluas. Thing is, no-one needs to believe anything. The FACTS have been published, the work has already been done for you. You either listen to the facts or purposely choose to ignore them. Each to their own.
Realist
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08-10-2016, 04:32 PM
25

Re: Flu jabs

Originally Posted by Meg ->
When deciding to have the vaccination I prefer to listen to the advice given by my doctor, The Center for Disease Control in the USA..
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm
Note Megs that the CDC is EXACTLY the same organisation I quoted and I provided the link to THEIR actual staff presentation which advocates an aggressive marketing campaign based on fearmongering. I guess you chose not to read it. Your choice.

As for the NHS . . . it does what it is told to do, period.
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08-10-2016, 04:32 PM
26

Re: Flu jabs

I have had the real Flu, i was close to being hospitalized, the GP said i was his first case of real flu he had every seen.

And of course us chaps get Man Flu a proven condition yet i will never again get the jab it made me very ill.
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stevmk2
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08-10-2016, 04:37 PM
27

Re: Flu jabs

For me it's all hysteria, this 'Flu jab business.

If the Government REALLY gave a toss about us they'd do something about those on really low pensions - stuff the 'Flu jab.
My workmate, who is 69 keeps rabbiting on about it as he's had one - fine, good for you - I don't want it thank you but he then chastises me - cheeky sod!

I'm 65, fit and very healthy despite a number of health problems and I currently weigh 72kilos.

He is the opposite and weighs far more than me but he's virtually the same build - with loads of padding.

Ask yourself who's more likely to come down with 'Flu - eh?

I haven't had 'Flu for years! stevmk2
Realist
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08-10-2016, 04:38 PM
28

Re: Flu jabs

Originally Posted by Mags ->
Realist, what qualifications do you have? Are you a doctor? I would sooner be guided by my own doctor ..... or Pats on here.
My medical qualification are not a factor in this discussion Mags.

I have provided links to the Cochrane Library which IS hugely qualified. It has over 10,000 medically trained employees and is THE benchmark internationally respected organisation in its field.

You should be asking about their qualifications not mine.

It is NOT ME that is saying don't have the Flu Jab. It is the Cochrane Library, who have reviewed over 2000 individual flu related studies involving over 8 million people worldwide.

THEY, not me, have discovered and stated that the Flu jab is pretty much useless helping just 1 in approx 100 people.

It staggers me on these Flu Jab threads that people just don't get this. You're looking to find excuses wherever you can but in the end, this report, and all the data that was gathered for it, can not be disputed.

It's not my fault. I didn't do the studies, sorry to disappoint.

Follow the links. Educate yourself. Try to be brutally objective instead of letting emotion and anecdotal nonsense get in the way.

At the very least, if you are going to be objective, your stance should be:

"I accept that the flu jab is largely useless and will only help 1 in 100 people but I choose to have it in case I'm that 1 person"

Are you willing to make such a statement? If not, on what grounds are you arguing against the Cochrane Report?
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Twink55
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08-10-2016, 06:28 PM
29

Re: Flu jabs

I am not interested in the Cochrane report and if I had been I would have found it for myself. I do my own research in medical matters and know for a fact that most companies, who produce these reports are usually finding a way to make money....just like the pharmaceutical companies you criticize. Other countries offer flu jabs to their residents and I am sure that they would not be investing money in them without their own research.
You obviously believe this report and can make your own decision about your flu jab, but can I suggest that, now you have drawn our attention to it, you allow the rest of us the choice of making our own decision on it. Whatever our decisions are, I feel you have no right to request our grounds for ignoring it, because medicine is a personal decision that we do not have to justify to you.
When people need advice on medical matters, they tend to ask the people they trust to offer the best advice, and the people they ask may not always be the ones that you would choose, but it doesn't mean that they are wrong!
Realist
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08-10-2016, 06:58 PM
30

Re: Flu jabs

Originally Posted by Twink55 ->
I am not interested in the Cochrane report
That's fine. However given that it is the primary source of collective information pertaining to the Flu Jab that means we cannot discuss the topic further in any meaningful way.

A bit like entering a discussion on what Revelations means and saying "I'm not interested in the Bible".

Originally Posted by Twink55 ->
Other countries offer flu jabs to their residents and I am sure that they would not be investing money in them without their own research.
They invest money because peddling useless flu jabs is very big business. That's about it.

Originally Posted by Twink55 ->
You obviously believe this report
I have thus far seen no tangible reason not to believe it. It's been done by the internationally respected defacto organisation for medical studies who employ over 10,000 medical related staff. Why would I not believe it?

Originally Posted by Twink55 ->
can I suggest that, now you have drawn our attention to it, you allow the rest of us the choice of making our own decision on it.
Everyone is always free to make their own decisions and no-one here afaik is trying to tell anyone what decision to make.

Originally Posted by Twink55 ->
Whatever our decisions are, I feel you have no right to request our grounds for ignoring it, because medicine is a personal decision that we do not have to justify to you.
Well, the thing is, this is an open forum discussion on the topic of the flu jab. The whole purpose is to debate the issues. If you are not happy discussing the issues then why are you here in the thread? Makes no sense.
To discuss the merits of any medical treatment or cure, you have to debate the facts and information pertaining to it. It's quite appropriate for anyone to challenge a view or to ask how someone arrived at a view. That's the debating process.

So absolutely, if you are going to set out a case to say that the Cochrane Library is a nonsense, then you definitely are going to be asked for data to support that. If as you say, you are just choosing to ignore it, then it's pretty pointless participating in a debate on the topic.

Originally Posted by Twink55 ->
When people need advice on medical matters, they tend to ask the people they trust to offer the best advice, and the people they ask may not always be the ones that you would choose, but it doesn't mean that they are wrong!
No-one is saying that they are wrong. I am simply presenting the data, the facts which as I said, even now, no-one has disputed or attempted to discredit.

Your personal choice to ignore those facts is absolutely fine, it's a free world however it's pointless debating further once you take that stance.
 
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