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Donkeyman
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02-03-2020, 12:36 PM
41

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
I wasn't referring to nationalised industries. It's well documented that control and command top down management models stifle innovation. Management that are incapable of communicating with workers end up totally out of touch with reality.
Nor was l Annie!
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The Artful Todger
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02-03-2020, 01:25 PM
42

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

The UK civil service has become the tail that is wagging the dog. That MUST be rooted out and ended. The civil service is there to provide information when asked and do what they are told by the democratically elected minister.

Well done Ms Patel.
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02-03-2020, 01:36 PM
43

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
The UK civil service has become the tail that is wagging the dog. That MUST be rooted out and ended. The civil service is there to provide information when asked and do what they are told by the democratically elected minister.

Well done Ms Patel.
Hi

That is fine, they could work with that.

All that is needed is for the Politicians to confirm their Instructions in writing and Immunity from Prosecution for any Civil Servant carrying out the Instructions of their Political Masters.

If Corbyn had been elected that would have meant us letting back in known Terrorists.
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03-03-2020, 03:14 PM
44

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Hi

I have never worked for or met Pritti.

The accusations against her are now growing and the fact that a payout has been made will count.

She is not unusual as regards Ministers , they have a tendency to become power mad when they have a position of power and believe me she is better than some.

Blair and May were much worse than her, but cleverer.
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04-03-2020, 06:35 AM
45

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

I would be very suspicious of these accusations. There is a trend these days to use the sort of accusations as a means of undermining people in positions of authority whether in government or business. Even were it to be proved to be true, if employees constantly get things wrong or deliberately obstruct their employers wishes they should expect to be disiplined.
Its not bullying to hold people to account especially when the taxpayer is footing the bill. It's difficult enough dealing with beligerent employees as it is without removing a good old fashioned rollocking from the armory.

It sounds to me like a few disgruntled civil servants, no doubt encouraged by some of the senior elite's in Whitehall, have seen this as a way of levering out a Home Secretary who wants to change things. It should not be allowed to happen
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04-03-2020, 09:03 AM
46

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Rainmaker that is fair enough, but if there have been cases where employees have been awarded damages for bullying claims then that indicates there is more to this. Those cases were not in the news at the time.

There is a way of managing people that does not include the alleged shouting and swearing. If you need to shout and swear then you are not a good communicator and need a bit more training in order to run such a big department. If you are in the midst of change management then it is particularly important to get people you work with on board in a respectful and dignified manner.
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04-03-2020, 09:24 AM
47

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

And what if the people don't want to co-operate and resist the change. do you let them get away with it and undermine your authority? How far do you go before enough is enough?

I speak as someone who spent the greater part of his working life in management and have personal experience of staff trying to undermine my authority. Only once did one cause me to lose my temper and he didn't last long. Admittedly this was in the real world where people had to take responsibility for their actions.
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04-03-2020, 10:09 AM
48

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
Rainmaker that is fair enough, but if there have been cases where employees have been awarded damages for bullying claims then that indicates there is more to this. Those cases were not in the news at the time.

There is a way of managing people that does not include the alleged shouting and swearing. If you need to shout and swear then you are not a good communicator and need a bit more training in order to run such a big department. If you are in the midst of change management then it is particularly important to get people you work with on board in a respectful and dignified manner.
There are a great many people that need to be shouted at and sworn at in order to get them out of their comfort and into yours.

What matters is to get them to do what they are being paid to do and this BS about making work a pleasant stress free environment is not what can be or should be anywhere near the top of the list of priorities for an employer.

Workers as is the case with all resources must deliver greater value than their cost.

Admittedly this often involves providing an environment in which that can be ensured including being aware of the optimum point on the cost/profit curve but nonetheless it is the bottom line.

Never forget that at all times workers are resources - nothing more.

A unique form of resource granted but nonetheless a resource to be exploited to the optimum point on the cost/benefit curve.

A resource that it's not a good idea to habitually abuse as with any resource or any tool, but there are times it has to be done, and if a tool is blunt it must be sharpened or slung under the bus.

Same with workers.
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04-03-2020, 10:21 AM
49

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Who is the real Priti Patel?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...al-priti-patel

Rude, dismissive and hostile, or friendly and self-deprecating? The home secretary divides opinion

The story goes like this: when the news that Priti Patel had stepped down as international development secretary spread through her department, some civil servants burst into an impromptu singalong of Ding Dong! The Witch is Dead.

While largely told secondhand, the vignette illustrates a current political truth about Patel, that someone who not many years ago was regularly tipped as a future prime minister is now among the most divisive figures in Westminster.

It is common for there to be mixed feelings towards politicians, but views on Patel, now Boris Johnson’s home secretary, appear particularly split. Some former colleagues, even opposition MPs, speak of her as approachable, friendly and self-deprecating. But certain civil servants and officials tell a very different story.

Following a series of claims about bullying behaviour at the Home Office – vehemently rejected by Patel’s allies – several sources have made similar claims to the Guardian about when Patel was international development secretary. Her tenure in that role ended abruptly in 2017 when it emerged she had failed to tell Theresa May about meetings with Israeli politicians and officials while supposedly on holiday.

One official who witnessed Patel at the Department for International Development (DfID) said her behaviour there was “as bad as the stories say”, with staff ranging from her private ministerial office to senior civil servants having “really suffered”.

The official said: “While the word ‘bullying’ is used, with her it’s not really personal, as if she took a dislike to certain people, it was her typical manner. One minute she would come across rude or ungrateful, and another she would be being dismissive or hostile in the face of advice. It was difficult for the people who experienced it.”

Such behaviour was not universal, they said. “I doubt you’ll hear politicians saying any of this. I think she’s been careful about how she’s presented herself all these years. And she can be the most charming person, people feel drawn to her.”
Patel has risen far and fast, no doubt due to her "presentation" to those above her but she does seem to be shallow and utterly self-centred with a complete lack of understanding and regard for those below her .....
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04-03-2020, 10:29 AM
50

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
There are a great many people that need to be shouted at and sworn at in order to get them out of their comfort and into yours.

What matters is to get them to do what they are being paid to do and this BS about making work a pleasant stress free environment is not what can be or should be anywhere near the top of the list of priorities for an employer.

Workers as is the case with all resources must deliver greater value than their cost.

Admittedly this often involves providing an environment in which that can be ensured including being aware of the optimum point on the cost/profit curve but nonetheless it is the bottom line.

Never forget that at all times workers are resources - nothing more.

A unique form of resource granted but nonetheless a resource to be exploited to the optimum point on the cost/benefit curve.

A resource that it's not a good idea to habitually abuse as with any resource or any tool, but there are times it has to be done, and if a tool is blunt it must be sharpened or slung under the bus.

Same with workers.

That's not the way to get things done and particularly so if you are an elected politician with a reputation to uphold. We all know that the parents who are shouting, swearing at and hitting their children are failing at parenthood and that they are the problem and not the child. Relationships with staff just as with other individuals who are working for you, contractors, etc need to be nurtured and developed if you want to get the most out of them. Try shouting and swearing at your plumber or builder and see where that gets you.

Perhaps our politicians should have some management training before they taken over large departments.
 
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