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06-03-2019, 05:04 PM
21

Re: EU to Enforce Hard Border or KICK DUBLIN OUT of Single Market!

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
What say you?
It was the UK that agreed the GFA dependent on no border and it was the UK that voted to change that and leave. It was the UK red lines wanting to leave the customs alignment and control immigration. If we now have WTO tarrifs, customs differences and want to control immigration then we will want a hard border just the same as EU.

How is this the EU's fault?
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06-03-2019, 05:23 PM
22

Re: EU to Enforce Hard Border or KICK DUBLIN OUT of Single Market!

Originally Posted by Unsure ->
It was the UK that agreed the GFA dependent on no border and it was the UK that voted to change that and leave. It was the UK red lines wanting to leave the customs alignment and control immigration. If we now have WTO tarrifs, customs differences and want to control immigration then we will want a hard border just the same as EU.

How is this the EU's fault?
Whats the GFA got to do with the EU ?
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06-03-2019, 08:04 PM
23

Re: EU to Enforce Hard Border or KICK DUBLIN OUT of Single Market!

Originally Posted by Bread ->
Whats the GFA got to do with the EU ?
Nothing!

The agreement was between the two communities, not politicians or political entities or nation states..........That's the bit of this whoe debacle the Remainers are misunderstanding!
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06-03-2019, 08:55 PM
24

Re: EU to Enforce Hard Border or KICK DUBLIN OUT of Single Market!

Originally Posted by Moscow ->
Nothing!

The agreement was between the two communities, not politicians or political entities or nation states..........That's the bit of this whoe debacle the Remainers are misunderstanding!
So your solution is to let the two communities solve the problem of the (hard) border. History shows them quite capable to tackle such a problem, don't you agree?
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06-03-2019, 09:20 PM
25

Re: EU to Enforce Hard Border or KICK DUBLIN OUT of Single Market!

Originally Posted by Bread ->
Whats the GFA got to do with the EU ?
Not a lot except that Eire is part of the EU. Read the whole thread for context.
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07-03-2019, 08:08 AM
26

Re: EU to Enforce Hard Border or KICK DUBLIN OUT of Single Market!

Originally Posted by Unsure ->
Not a lot except that Eire is part of the EU. Read the whole thread for context.


I did

The EU has nothing to do with the GFA or the CTA.
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07-03-2019, 02:11 PM
27

Re: EU to Enforce Hard Border or KICK DUBLIN OUT of Single Market!

Originally Posted by Bread ->
I did

The EU has nothing to do with the GFA or the CTA.

Okay, I'll try and go slowly on this one.


At one time we had hard manned borders between Northern Ireland (mostly protestant) and Eire (mostly catholic). We also had a lot of trouble between the two communities and still some of that persists today. The UK and Eire helped to build the GFA. There has been relative peace ever since. An important part of the GFA was that the borders between Eire and Northern Ireland should be open and unmanned. At this point not a lot to do with the EU.


In 2016 the UK marginally voted to leave the EU which would have Eire in the EU and Northern Ireland outside the EU. So the border between Eire and Northern Ireland will now also be the border between EU and non EU and that has a lot to do with the EU!

Of the leave voters I have spoken to not many considered the impact on the Eire/Northern Ireland border and yet it will be the only UK border with the EU. The leavers have no coherent plan for this issue. If UK is to be truly outside the EU i.e. outside the FTA and the customs union and we want control of our borders (e.g. to stop the millions of immigrants from Turkey etc getting in) then we need a manned border to "protect the UK"

For certain wealthy Leavers to now say "We will leave it open. Its up to the EU if they want a border" shows just how desperate for a USA deal they are. They couldn't give a toss about smugglers, the UK, Eire or the GFA.

This issue is entirely caused by the UK voting for Brexit after a clever campaign by wealthy press owners and selfish lying politicians so don't blame the EU.
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07-03-2019, 02:13 PM
28

Re: EU to Enforce Hard Border or KICK DUBLIN OUT of Single Market!

Originally Posted by Bread ->
I did

The EU has nothing to do with the GFA or the CTA.
You are right in that they were no party in these agreements. In the brexit negotiations the EU represents the interests of 27 members. That is the essence of a union. One of the members is bound in GFA . In their negotiations the EU has to consider the obligations that follow from this being bound. So the EU has everything to do with the GFA.
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07-03-2019, 02:20 PM
29

Re: EU to Enforce Hard Border or KICK DUBLIN OUT of Single Market!

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
You are right in that they were no party in these agreements. In the brexit negotiations the EU represents the interests of 27 members. That is the essence of a union. One of the members is bound in GFA . In their negotiations the EU has to consider the obligations that follow from this being bound. So the EU has everything to do with the GFA.
The border in Ireland was a security border and was removed as part of the GFA. The border that the EU want to put up is a customs border - nothing to do with the GFA.

The common travel area was set up in 1923 - way before the GFA and the EU was ever thought of.

Nothing at all to do with the EU - unless you mean its to do with trying to annex Northern Ireland and keep us in a customs union.
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07-03-2019, 02:40 PM
30

Re: EU to Enforce Hard Border or KICK DUBLIN OUT of Single Market!

Originally Posted by Bread ->
The border in Ireland was a security border and was removed as part of the GFA. The border that the EU want to put up is a customs border - nothing to do with the GFA.

The common travel area was set up in 1923 - way before the GFA and the EU was ever thought of.

Nothing at all to do with the EU - unless you mean its to do with trying to annex Northern Ireland and keep us in a customs union.
Wasn't one of the points of brexit security borders to control immigration. So the UK wants a security border in ireland, EU rules require a tax border with third party countries. The GFA prevents both..
 
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