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26-09-2019, 04:23 PM
21

Re: Why Prorogation is So Important for Boris

Originally Posted by Bread ->
I don't agree.

If neither of the two options are agreed it makes no difference. There is no legislation in the Benn Bill for a deal that is brought back to the commons and is then voted down.

No I think you're missing something Bread forgive me.

The Bill clearly sets out a list of conditions which are numbered. They seem unambiguous to me.

Condition 1 - A withdrawal deal is agreed and approved by the House

Condition 2 - Leaving with No Deal is agreed and approved by the House

Condition 3 - "If neither of the conditions in subsection (1) or subsection (2) is satisfied, subsection (4) must be complied with no later than 19 October 2019."

Condition 4 - An extension must be requested


So it's there in black and white. You MUST satisfy either Condition 1 or Condition 2 otherwise you MUST satisfy Condition 4 (request extension).


Presenting May's deal back to the House does NOT satisfy Condition 1, unless the House approves it.



http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...acted/data.htm



What you are saying is patently wrong in this case. The Benn Bill basically forces Boris to either come up with a deal that the House is willing to vote through, or to somehow get the House to vote through a No Deal exit, or failing both of those to request an extension.

Boris is shackled. Totally.

The only way out of this traitorous situation is to hold an election, vote a combination of Tory and BrExit parties into power, then repeal the Parliament Act, repeal the Benn Bill and proceed with a No Deal exit.
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26-09-2019, 05:58 PM
22

Re: Why Prorogation is So Important for Boris

Originally Posted by Realist ->
No I think you're missing something Bread forgive me.

The Bill clearly sets out a list of conditions which are numbered. They seem unambiguous to me.

Condition 1 - A withdrawal deal is agreed and approved by the House

Condition 2 - Leaving with No Deal is agreed and approved by the House

Condition 3 - "If neither of the conditions in subsection (1) or subsection (2) is satisfied, subsection (4) must be complied with no later than 19 October 2019."

Condition 4 - An extension must be requested


So it's there in black and white. You MUST satisfy either Condition 1 or Condition 2 otherwise you MUST satisfy Condition 4 (request extension).


Presenting May's deal back to the House does NOT satisfy Condition 1, unless the House approves it.



http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...acted/data.htm



What you are saying is patently wrong in this case. The Benn Bill basically forces Boris to either come up with a deal that the House is willing to vote through, or to somehow get the House to vote through a No Deal exit, or failing both of those to request an extension.

Boris is shackled. Totally.

The only way out of this traitorous situation is to hold an election, vote a combination of Tory and BrExit parties into power, then repeal the Parliament Act, repeal the Benn Bill and proceed with a No Deal exit.
I'm still not convinced this is the case.

I guess time will tell
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26-09-2019, 06:04 PM
23

Re: Why Prorogation is So Important for Boris

Originally Posted by Bread ->
I'm still not convinced this is the case.
What, specifically is not the case?
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26-09-2019, 06:10 PM
24

Re: Why Prorogation is So Important for Boris

Oh well, even though you are at odds with each other over this, your knowledgeable discussion has at least explained it to those of us still cross-eyed with events and what may happen next! It's hard trying to keep up with it all, so thank you Realist and Bread.
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26-09-2019, 06:12 PM
25

Re: Why Prorogation is So Important for Boris

Realist please ! Reality is a different poster
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26-09-2019, 06:14 PM
26

Re: Why Prorogation is So Important for Boris

Originally Posted by Realist ->
What, specifically is not the case?
A deal that is brought back to the house that the house vote down is not legislated in the Benn bill.

Only a withdrawal bill that is approved is defined - by voting down any deal as part of parliamentary scrutiny also implies the house does not want a deal to leave with
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26-09-2019, 06:14 PM
27

Re: Why Prorogation is So Important for Boris

Realist, profuse apologies, I was editing it to say exactly that when you posted. I could have gotten away with it otherwise.
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26-09-2019, 06:16 PM
28

Re: Why Prorogation is So Important for Boris

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
Realist, profuse apologies, I was editing it to say exactly that when you posted. I could have gotten away with it otherwise.

Ooh your in trouble now
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26-09-2019, 06:21 PM
29

Re: Why Prorogation is So Important for Boris

OMG Bread, I know. Will Realist ever acknowledge me again?!!!
Of all names, I had to type that blooming one!. Never mind, edited now thank goodness.
Realist
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26-09-2019, 06:33 PM
30

Re: Why Prorogation is So Important for Boris

Originally Posted by Bread ->
A deal that is brought back to the house that the house vote down is not legislated in the Benn bill.

Correct but that does not alter Conditions 1 or 2 and sadly Condition 3 clearly states that if you don't satisfy either Condition 1 or 2 then you have to ask for an extension.


Originally Posted by Bread ->
Only a withdrawal bill that is approved is defined - by voting down any deal as part of parliamentary scrutiny also implies the house does not want a deal to leave with
Hugely tenuous. You are wanting to say that if any deal is voted down that this therefore means they are agreeing to leave with No Deal. That just has no mileage at all. It has no mileage logically, because there might be all manner of deals to be assessed and voted on. Voting down one deal doesn't mean they wouldn't vote down another.

It also has no mileage legally because the Benn Bill clearly states in regards to Condition 2:

"The condition in this subsection is that a Minister of the Crown has laid before each House of Parliament a statement that the United Kingdom is to leave the European Union without an agreement having been reached under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union"


Presenting a deal, any deal, is not presenting a statement that we will leave with No Deal.

As I said. Boris is shackled. Stuffed. It's traitorous that our MPs have created and pushed through this Bill. It's a dictatorial stance designed to prevent BrExit happening, presumably until they are happy that there are enough new 18yr olds ready to vote Remain in a 2nd Referendum.
 
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