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Donkeyman
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22-05-2019, 06:52 PM
11

Re: British Steel? Timing?

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
It won't be anything sinister. Their accounting year end is 31st march so the group accounts have probably just finshed being reviewed and audited.
Could be, Annie, but suspicious under the circumstances
dont you think? especially as the amount requested was as
one steel worker said, less than the price of a top footballer!
I dont accept any technical reasons at face value anymore
either!

Regards Donkeyman!
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The Artful Todger
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22-05-2019, 07:31 PM
12

Re: British Steel? Timing?

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
Could be, Annie, but suspicious under the circumstances
dont you think? especially as the amount requested was as
one steel worker said, less than the price of a top footballer!
I dont accept any technical reasons at face value anymore
either!

Regards Donkeyman!
I'm with you on this one. It stinks. It's only the huge amounts of tax payers money that has been slid in by underhand means supposedly to protect jobs that has made this and other big employers attractive things to buy and then sell on when all the subsidy money has been ghosted away.
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fender
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22-05-2019, 08:10 PM
13

Re: British Steel? Timing?

Sure I heard on the radio today that the Gov could not loan them any money due to EU rules???
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22-05-2019, 08:50 PM
14

Re: British Steel? Timing?

Originally Posted by fender ->
Sure I heard on the radio today that the Gov could not loan them any money due to EU rules???
Hi

It was stated in the House of Commons, by a Govt Spokesperson, that the money could not be lent because of both EU and WTO Rules.

What was not stated that this was because we already lent them money in a such a manner as to prohibit a second loan.

The first loan was for £120 million, only a few weeks ago, to a company which is now insolvent, British Steel.

Shortly after British Steel was given the loan it went into a 50/50 buyout of an insolvent French steel mill.

The other partner was the French Government.

This saved the French steel mill and its employees jobs.

This was legal under both WTO and EU Rules.

In the few weeks between the loan being given to British Steel by our Government and British Steel was declared insolvent, the French Steel Company was separated from British Steel and is now owned by Greybull.

It will not be affected by British Steel going bust.

So we have screwed up big time, been totally outwitted by the French Government and our money has been used to save a French Steel Mill whilst ours has gone bust with a £120 million Public Loan .

Our Government is useless and we have nobody to blame except ourselves.
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22-05-2019, 09:50 PM
15

Re: British Steel? Timing?

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
Could be, Annie, but suspicious under the circumstances
dont you think? especially as the amount requested was as
one steel worker said, less than the price of a top footballer!
I dont accept any technical reasons at face value anymore
either!

Regards Donkeyman!
I don't think it's suspicious at all. The director resigned today - would he have done that as a stunt? I think not.

The accounting year end is 31st March. You need to give about six weeks to be sure of the accounting position. They have been in trouble for a while.

They made a big loss in the account at 31st March 18. There was a large investment in plant & equipment in the previous accounts, a fall in cash and an increase in creditors. There's nothing particularly significant other than that but if your business is in the billions then these are big swings. The revenue went up but so did their operating costs. Looking at their accounts I would have said that given the current economic climate there were great grounds for concern.

For anyone who wants to view them, the 17/18 accounts are available at the companies house website. It's unsurprising they have crashed given both their history and the economic climate with much uncertainty as a result of not only brexit but the US trade war, but this is something that started in 17/18 and is not a new problem. Not sure if it was unwise investments at a bad time or whether this was down to actual purchases or changes in accounting treatment of assets. It seems that raw material costs increased, they seemed to suffer from exchange rate differences. Basically a company working in a hostile economic environment making some unwise investment decisions.

People are reading too much into the timing of this announcement. It's purely coincidental.
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22-05-2019, 09:53 PM
16

Re: British Steel? Timing?

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

It was stated in the House of Commons, by a Govt Spokesperson, that the money could not be lent because of both EU and WTO Rules.

What was not stated that this was because we already lent them money in a such a manner as to prohibit a second loan.

The first loan was for £120 million, only a few weeks ago, to a company which is now insolvent, British Steel.

Shortly after British Steel was given the loan it went into a 50/50 buyout of an insolvent French steel mill.

The other partner was the French Government.

This saved the French steel mill and its employees jobs.

This was legal under both WTO and EU Rules.

In the few weeks between the loan being given to British Steel by our Government and British Steel was declared insolvent, the French Steel Company was separated from British Steel and is now owned by Greybull.

It will not be affected by British Steel going bust.

So we have screwed up big time, been totally outwitted by the French Government and our money has been used to save a French Steel Mill whilst ours has gone bust with a £120 million Public Loan .

Our Government is useless and we have nobody to blame except ourselves.
I don't understand why any government would want to lend money to such a poorly managed organisation. Some problems are not solved by throwing money at them. Sometimes you just need to let it go.
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22-05-2019, 10:01 PM
17

Re: British Steel? Timing?

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
I'm with you on this one. It stinks. It's only the huge amounts of tax payers money that has been slid in by underhand means supposedly to protect jobs that has made this and other big employers attractive things to buy and then sell on when all the subsidy money has been ghosted away.
Are you talking about a different organisation?
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The Artful Todger
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22-05-2019, 10:35 PM
18

Re: British Steel? Timing?

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
I don't think it's suspicious at all. The director resigned today - would he have done that as a stunt? I think not.

The accounting year end is 31st March. You need to give about six weeks to be sure of the accounting position. They have been in trouble for a while.

They made a big loss in the account at 31st March 18. There was a large investment in plant & equipment in the previous accounts, a fall in cash and an increase in creditors. There's nothing particularly significant other than that but if your business is in the billions then these are big swings. The revenue went up but so did their operating costs. Looking at their accounts I would have said that given the current economic climate there were great grounds for concern.

For anyone who wants to view them, the 17/18 accounts are available at the companies house website. It's unsurprising they have crashed given both their history and the economic climate with much uncertainty as a result of not only brexit but the US trade war, but this is something that started in 17/18 and is not a new problem. Not sure if it was unwise investments at a bad time or whether this was down to actual purchases or changes in accounting treatment of assets. It seems that raw material costs increased, they seemed to suffer from exchange rate differences. Basically a company working in a hostile economic environment making some unwise investment decisions.

People are reading too much into the timing of this announcement. It's purely coincidental.
I disagree.
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The Artful Todger
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22-05-2019, 10:37 PM
19

Re: British Steel? Timing?

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
Are you talking about a different organisation?
No. Same one. It's common practice.
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22-05-2019, 10:57 PM
20

Re: British Steel? Timing?

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
No. Same one. It's common practice.
There's no evidence of anything of the sort. Plus it would not be legal. If the government wanted to be involved it would. Perhaps it will as some symbolic act, given that we have a weak government.

The original steel industry in Britain has been plagued with all the same problems as other industries. Namely complacency, inertia, poor strategy, laziness, ostrich mentality. The biggest problem is a lack of accountability. No wonder it's ruined.
 
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