Re: Gaza/ Israel

It's pretty clear we are discussing the occupied territories when we discuss Palestinian land. Every authority has agreed that the fourth Geneva convention applies to this land. Israel disagrees with the UN etc.

These areas do not have any Israeli character, they trade in dollars and they have Palestinian flags everywhere. The West Bank feels similar to being in Jordan. It's a striking difference in culture.

I'm not sure why Israel continues to hold onto these territories. They would be better off having a border with Jordan rather than hanging onto the West Bank.

I don't know much about Gaza other than from documentaries. You can't go there as a tourist. Are there Israeli settlements there?

Re: Gaza/ Israel

Murder as many of the habitants as possible and change the place into an oppressive corrupt hellhole .
An unholy land
.

Re: Gaza/ Israel

They are not 'occupied ' this is just an emotive word to conjure up the Nazi comparison .
They are disputed .
Who would t disagree with the corrupt and useless organisation that is the UN

Well as it is governed by the Palestinian Fatah government so it will have flags everywhere .
Of course it has some Israeli character it has some of the holiest sites of the Jewish faith .

Under Jordan Jews were prohibited from visiting these sites .
Jordan also destroyed and desecrated many Jewish holy sites
Israel however allows freedom of all faiths to visit their holy place .


They have a border with Jordan .
Jordan annexed the West Bank it was not originally part of Jordan .
If it hadn't waged a totally unnecessary war on Israel it would have it still . Israel had no beef with Jordan .


No Annie there are no settlements or Isrealis in the Gaza .
Israeli withdrew completely in 2005 .
The Gaza Strip was formally part of Egypt .
Israel took it when Egypt waged war on them together with the sInai .
They returned this land in a land for peace deal
Except Egypt didn't want it back ( they don't want the troublesome 'Palestinians ' either .)
Gaza is ruled completely by the terrorist group Hamas
Hamas is an off shoot of the Muslim Brotherhood which is illegal in Egypt .
Hamas was elected by the people of Gaza and have not held elections since .
They are at odds with Fatah -the Palestinian governors of the West Bank .
Fatah controls to some extent electricity supplies and finance to the Gaza .
Hamas would like to rule the West Bank too.
Of course this would be disasterous for Israel who cannot have a terrorist organisation next to them they would in a totally indefensible position .
The Palestinians of the West Bank don't want Hamas either .While they may not like the Israelis they are can't but be aware of what life under Hamas would be.

The Gaza Strip as run by Hamas is oppressive and totally controlling .Sharia Law is in place and nepotism is rife ( it is in most ME countries) Jobs are allotted to Hamas members and their families .All who are subsided by UNRWA and other sources .Hence there is a hierarchy of Hamas .The leaders live lives of comfort and privilege and the same time as promoting their people as the most wretched .
Their sons will not be running the streets risking the wrath of Israel .
If there was peace the Hamas elite would lose their privileged and subsidised lifestyle .
A Gazan women screamed this out just recently .
Predictably she was arrested

Re: Gaza/ Israel

It's the way they are described. It's not like they are part of Israel, they are "territory A", "territory B" etc. How are they not occupied? You can rubbish all the world authorities who have the view that this falls under the Geneva Convention but that does not change the fact that these areas are considered to be under occupation as far as international law is concerned.


So how are these areas part of Israel if they are ruled by someone else and do not display Israeli flags?


Many biblical holy sites are not in Israel and cross to Jordan and Syria.

Jordan as you say has a peace treaty with Israel. Has that happened since the treaty? You've lived in Jordan so you will know that they are a very cultured country. I cannot see Jordan denying access to say Bethlehem and Jericho. I do not understand why Israel insists on holding onto these areas. They just cause trouble for Israel. So what benefit is there?


On the subject of access to holy sites, it's actually very difficult to get into Israel if you are from a Muslim state, even if you have just visited as a tourist. Obviously that's to protect the population from terrorists. But if you are Muslim then you won't be able to get into Israel easily and visit any Muslim holy sites. So Christians - yes, Muslims - no. They are extremely careful.

Re: Gaza/ Israel

The same law applied to Jordan .
No one made a stink then .



They are part of Israel by conquest in a DEFENSIVE war .
Israel allows the Arabs there to have their own governors .



Some are .
But many including the tomb of the Patriarchs ( which is sacred to all three main faiths ) are as is the mount of Olives and East Jerusalem .
Under Isrealis all fiats have access to their holy places .


Jordan gave up its claim to the West Bank in 1988.
I love Jordan but things have changed greatly under their wise King Abdullah.
Under king Hussein the West Bank was not so free to tourists .
They had to show a baptismal certificate to prove they were not Jewish .

There are many countries in the world that prohibit their citizens from visiting Israel .
These are the same countries that prohibit jews form entering their country .
Jordanian Muslims go there all the time .There is a bus service from Amman I have taken it myself .

In order to avoid passport problems the Israeli passport control will if requested stamp a pice of paper with an entrance stamp instead of you passport .
This makes it easy for people who intend to travel to these countries .

Re: Gaza/ Israel

Muddy i do not understand what Israel has to gain by keeping these disputed areas. It's not like they are much of a buffer zone. More a liability. Plus Gaza - what on earth is the benefit to israel? It might help solve all the problems if they just agreed to handover to another country at some point in time.

Re: Gaza/ Israel

They are a buffer zone while they are under Isreali military control .
Of course if the Palestinians agreed to live in peace there would be no problem but they don't so there will be no peace .


I have just explained to you in detail the Gaza
Which is NOT Isreal .
Which part don't you understand ?

Re: Gaza/ Israel

Muddy you modified your post extensively after i replied so don't bite my head off please!

Re: Gaza/ Israel

Sorry about that for some reason my iPad freezes if I compose too long a post so I have to post it and then reopen .

I have some added information here in regard to Muslims not entering Isreal. I had meant to put it into the previous post .

Here are the 15 countries of the world who refuse Isreali passport holders.


The Israeli passport is not accepted in 16 countries. Syria, Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Yemen and Libya all forbid Israeli passport holders from entering their countries, along with 10 other nations: Algeria, Bangladesh, Brunei, Kuwait, Lebanon, Malaysia, Oman, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.