05-05-2019, 03:56 PM
11
Re: So called Palestinians attack Israel AGAIN.
You seem to have missed my main point AT!Which was people were living as peacefully as it is
possible in an area where the various tribes living there are
carrying grudges dating back 3000yrs to sins carried out by
their ancient ancestors!
The situation preWW 2 was vastly superior to the present
situation, where, with huge american backing and financial
assistance lsrael has become progressively more more
militant and even repressive!
I agree that in the early days of lsraels rebirth, the surrounding
arab nations were very hostile, and l have allready explained
possible reasons why, and l understand lsraels early responses
to that hostility and why things went the way they did.
But now things are different, lsrael is the dominant power in
the area, and is not under any real threat! It is after all backed
by the US!
I have no solutions to the problems there, it seems none of
the two sides involved are able to even talk civilly to each
other, what l do believe though is they both need to take a
step back and think! and l also believe that the stronger of
two should make the first concession towards appeasement!
The past is past, and should remain so!
Otherwise l think lsrael runs the risk of becoming something
of a pariah, to use a biblical phrase!
Best Regards Donkeyman!
05-05-2019, 04:11 PM
12
Re: So called Palestinians attack Israel AGAIN.
Originally Posted by Donkeyman
->
You seem to have missed my main point AT!Which was people were living as peacefully as it is
possible in an area where the various tribes living there are
carrying grudges dating back 3000yrs to sins carried out by
their ancient ancestors!
The situation preWW 2 was vastly superior to the present
situation, where, with huge american backing and financial
assistance lsrael has become progressively more more
militant and even repressive!
I agree that in the early days of lsraels rebirth, the surrounding
arab nations were very hostile, and l have allready explained
possible reasons why, and l understand lsraels early responses
to that hostility and why things went the way they did.
But now things are different, lsrael is the dominant power in
the area, and is not under any real threat! It is after all backed
by the US!
I have no solutions to the problems there, it seems none of
the two sides involved are able to even talk civilly to each
other, what l do believe though is they both need to take a
step back and think! and l also believe that the stronger of
two should make the first concession towards appeasement!
The past is past, and should remain so!
Otherwise l think lsrael runs the risk of becoming something
of a pariah, to use a biblical phrase!
Best Regards Donkeyman!
05-05-2019, 04:36 PM
13
Re: So called Palestinians attack Israel AGAIN.
In the days after the short lived attack by hostile Arabs on Israel the Arabs who remained in Israel who had not fled because of the lies spread by the hostile neighbouring states within days established very cordial relations with the Jewish people and shared in the building of a prosperous country.Then came the various tribes many of whom had been kicked out of the Arab part of the British mandate, Jordan, because of the trouble they were causing.
It was this shower that were pulled together by Jamāʿat al-Ikhwān al-Muslimīn aka the muslim brotherhood to attack Israel.
Had they been successful they would have gained huge kudos and this would have resulted in support from other dissatisfied SOB's who would have then created no end of trouble in the region starting with Jordon.
It was some years later that the so-called nation of Palestine was invented by Arafat in a clever move to attempt to legitimise a collection of illegitimates.
He succeeded, at least in the eyes of the Jew haters, the ignorant, the gullible, and the naïve.
As for peace, at the very most all that could be hoped for would be an armistice and whenever that has been in sight the supporters of hamas and worse have broken it and set the clock back usually blackening even further the name of Israel in the process but a permanent peace can never be achieved for the very simple reason that there is no-one willing or able to agree a peace with Israel.
Why not?
Islam absolutely forbids such a thing and that apart contained right at the start of the hamas charter is an oath that there will never be such a peace.
There are many translations of the hamas charter. This is one. All the others are as near as dammit identical.
https://fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818.htm.
06-05-2019, 10:42 AM
14
Re: So called Palestinians attack Israel AGAIN.
Extremely lengthy document AT, l see it was not dated, butit was translated by the Harry Trueman institute so that
gives a rough time of translation, but not when it was
Written! From the length of it it could easily date back
3500 yrs!
However, l do not try to apportion blame to any one party,
they have both made mistakes, and misjudgements which
seem to have accumulated to what is seen now?
I stand by my previous post which was an attempt to
suggest a way out of the present lmpasse, l know any
solution is going to be extremely difficult if not impossible
given the long history of both sides, but if a peacefull
conclusion is truly sought, then both sides need to put less
emphasis on their long histories and religions! and focus
on today and tommorrow!
If a palistinian posted on the forum today l would answer
them in the same way as l am you!
Best Regards Donkeyman!
06-05-2019, 11:22 AM
15
Re: So called Palestinians attack Israel AGAIN.
Originally Posted by Donkeyman
->
Much of what you all are saying is true!But my point is that Israel did not exist untill after WW2!
before which everybody was cohabiting in a reasonable
manner!
After the war it was decided by western nations, with no
input from local interests, to create a jewish state, and in
order to do this, they needed to evict the current owners
of these lands, who happened to be Palestinians, to make
room for these newcomers. The people they chose to carry
out these evictions were the british!
Obviously doing something like this was going to create a
lot of ill will, to put it mildly! things have merely moved on
to what we have now!
Just put yourselves into the same boat as palistinians where
your families had been forcibly dispossessed of most of
what they owned, how would YOU feel?
I dont condone what is taking place there now, on both
sides, but being hard arsed is not going to help, it will only
increase the allready high sense of greivance felt in that
area!
I think the lesson to be learned for the whole world would
be, not to tamper lightly with old established boundaries
and customs!
Regards Donkeyman!
Thank you Donkeyman.
And it's a refreshing change from the hatemongering war machine that seems to continually pound out Israeli propoganda on here of late. Possibly a Jew himself, so one makes allowances for them.
Because of the Holocaust he does have a legitimate axe to grind when it comes to defending Israel's right to defend themselves, however enthusiastically, and albeit over half a century too late and with the wrong enemy.
Heaven help us all should Israel and Iran ever seriously lock horns ... the Palestinians are a weaker enemy and the Israeli just round them up, and treat them, like cattle.
It's true ... Both sides as are bad as each other .
With one major difference.
With such a powerful backer as the US Israel have the greater capability to enforce landgrab, engage in illegal occupation and shoot hundreds of rioters.
(Sarcasm alert). Which of course, any civilised country would do wouldn't it?
Odd to think that the average American taxpayer pays more for Israels defence than an Israeli does, bolstering the billions of dollars of American military aid that Israel enjoy.
06-05-2019, 12:04 PM
16
Re: So called Palestinians attack Israel AGAIN.
Heard of passive aggressiveness?Well that tirade is passive antisemitism at its finest!
Both sides as bad as each other?
Err, no.
If the palests didn't continually attack Israel then there would be no point in responding to those attacks.
It's only necessary to read the hamas charter to see what is involved.
The latest that I'm hearing from my contacts in Israel is that having now fired close to ONE THOUSAND rocket propelled bombs into civilian areas of Israel with no targeting other than civilian centres of population the palests are now begging for a ceasefire.
Ceasefire? Well having fired what hopefully was the whole stock of kiddie-killer things they've got to wait for the next batch to be imported.
Both sides as bad as each other? Purleeese!
Now the claimed backing of Israel by the US tax payer. Does anyone want to go down that rat hole? Apart from anything else how about the backing of hamas et al by the European Union tax payers? Or the backing of the hamas et al by tax payers in other states and so called charities?
But what does Israel contribute to the world in return for incoming investment and defence deals?
Tell you what.
Just stop taking advantage of everything that Israel has delivered to the rest of the world. Do so, and people who did would find their lives had suddenly become very unpleasant not to mention short just by the lack of medicines alone.
06-05-2019, 01:20 PM
17
Re: So called Palestinians attack Israel AGAIN.
Originally Posted by The Artful Todger
->
Heard of passive aggressiveness?Well that tirade is passive antisemitism at its finest!
Both sides as bad as each other?
Err, no.
If the palests didn't continually attack Israel then there would be no point in responding to those attacks.
It's only necessary to read the hamas charter to see what is involved.
The latest that I'm hearing from my contacts in Israel is that having now fired close to ONE THOUSAND rocket propelled bombs into civilian areas of Israel with no targeting other than civilian centres of population the palests are now begging for a ceasefire.
Ceasefire? Well having fired what hopefully was the whole stock of kiddie-killer things they've got to wait for the next batch to be imported.
Both sides as bad as each other? Purleeese!
Now the claimed backing of Israel by the US tax payer. Does anyone want to go down that rat hole? Apart from anything else how about the backing of hamas et al by the European Union tax payers? Or the backing of the hamas et al by tax payers in other states and so called charities?
But what does Israel contribute to the world in return for incoming investment and defence deals?
Tell you what.
Just stop taking advantage of everything that Israel has delivered to the rest of the world. Do so, and people who did would find their lives had suddenly become very unpleasant not to mention short just by the lack of medicines alone.
You should look at your own posts before accusing others. By all means defend Israel, ultimately and unconditionally if you so chose to see their policies that way but please do not resort to incredible rudeness and brazen bullying should you meet a view that differs to your own.
Trying to shout down the opposition just makes your argument look weak.
06-05-2019, 01:33 PM
18
Re: So called Palestinians attack Israel AGAIN.
Originally Posted by Morticia
->
Excuse me ... do you mean my post?You should look at your own posts before accusing others. By all means defend Israel, ultimately and unconditionally if you so chose to see their policies that way but please do not resort to incredible rudeness and brazen bullying should you meet a view that differs to your own.
Trying to shout down the opposition just makes your argument look weak.
As for being rude, trust me, if that had been my intent it would have been patently clear.
Bullying? By opposing your ----- opinion? I don't think so!
Unconditionally supporting Israel?
Where have I EVER done that?
My dear, defending the actions that are being warped, twisted, distorted, and spun does not amount to unconditionally supporting anything.
Rudeness? Pfft.
06-05-2019, 01:57 PM
19
Re: So called Palestinians attack Israel AGAIN.
My dear gentleman ... I think I'll choose to give your rather dogmatic rants a wide berth. One wouldn't want to risk damaging your impenetrable armour of false modesty.Let me know when you can prevent a salient , rational and informed argument regarding the Israel/Palestinian problem.
No need to hurry. All in your own good time.
06-05-2019, 02:09 PM
20
Re: So called Palestinians attack Israel AGAIN.
Originally Posted by Morticia
->
My dear gentleman ... I think I'll choose to give your rather dogmatic rants a wide berth. One wouldn't want to risk damaging your impenetrable armour of false modesty. Let me know when you can prevent a salient , rational and informed argument regarding the Israel/Palestinian problem.
No need to hurry. All in your own good time.
It's not an Israel / palests problem, it's a "problem" caused BY the so called palestinians!
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