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Muddy
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14-05-2019, 09:36 PM
21

Re: Martin Clunes dropped by animal charity

Originally Posted by Floydy ->
Sorry I spoke. Some horses are wild animals.
Indeed they are Floydy I can only think of two truly wild species Prewaskis horse and the Zebra .

Both are extremely aggressive and practically untameable unless obtained as very young animals.

Wild horses such as the American mustang and the Australian brumbies are all descended from domesticated horses .

They are wild though and in many cases sadly horses are still trained with brutality .

The poor elephant one of the most intelligent and noble animals on the planet is always brutalised .

It's terrible.
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14-05-2019, 09:47 PM
22

Re: Martin Clunes dropped by animal charity

Originally Posted by Muddy ->
Indeed they are Floydy I can only think of two truly wild species Prewaskis horse and the Zebra .

Both are extremely aggressive and practically untameable unless obtained as very young animals.

Wild horses such as the American mustang and the Australian brumbies are all descended from domesticated horses .

They are wild though and in many cases sadly horses are still trained with brutality .

The poor elephant one of the most intelligent and noble animals on the planet is always brutalised .

It's terrible.
Yes it is Muddy, but I still wish I'd not bothered with this thread.
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14-05-2019, 09:53 PM
23

Re: Martin Clunes dropped by animal charity

There's no need to ride on any animal these days.Just because Clunes is a famous actor it doesn't mean he's particularly bright.
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14-05-2019, 10:00 PM
24

Re: Martin Clunes dropped by animal charity

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
Floydy has a point! After all Hanibal was using elephants
hundreds of years ago! And asian elephants have been used
also for a considerable length of time to handle trees in
forestry operations, ridden by mahoots, who appear to love
their animals and take good care of them! These working
elephants are born in captivity, and therefore cannot be
considered wild!
They are not taught tricks as such, but
are taught to carry out the tasks needed to do their work,
which includes allowing themselves to be ridden! All much the
same as horses!
However l have no doubt that dubious operators do exist
and need stricter enforcement laws!

I am on the elephants side on this but imo they are in a
similar situation to horses and similarly enjoy doing their
work!

Best Regards Donkeyman!


Donkeyman, I would like to comment on the two points I have hi-lighted if I may.

Firstly, I think you will find the elephants Puddles was talking about are usually NOT born in captivity. Their mother's are killed in the wild and the babies are stolen.

Secondly, 'dubious operators' most certainly do exist. You've have only got to read some of these links here.
These are the sadists who need dealing with urgently.

If anyone wants to understand more about the appalling 'training' these gentle, intelligent creatures have to endure in some hands, the following is a very good, though horribly gruesome link:


https://www.elephantvoices.org/eleph...ack-rides.html

As for likening them to horses, I can't imagine many horse owners using those evil bullhooks on them, stabbing them and deliberately making them bleed, nor chaining their legs up and leave them with no food and water for days on end to break their spirit and force them to comply.

I am fully aware many different types of animal get abused daily, whether it be by their owners, by yobs or strangers, or the mad scientists in laboratories with their thousands of experiments, but I will never, ever, condone any form of cruelty.
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14-05-2019, 11:21 PM
25

Re: Martin Clunes dropped by animal charity

Originally Posted by Puddle Duck ->
They don't look after them at all, Tiffany. Even the Temples are uncaring and parade them amongst thousands of people on hard tarmac or gravel roads where they get blisters and their pads get ripped or burnt, the gravel gets buried in the feet , with drums banging, music blaring ,crowds cheering.. This is not normal for a wild animal, or indeed any animal.
And you know this, how?
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14-05-2019, 11:24 PM
26

Re: Martin Clunes dropped by animal charity

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
Floydy has a point! After all Hanibal was using elephants
hundreds of years ago! And asian elephants have been used
also for a considerable length of time to handle trees in
forestry operations, ridden by mahoots, who appear to love
their animals and take good care of them! These working
elephants are born in captivity, and therefore cannot be
considered wild! They are not taught tricks as such, but
are taught to carry out the tasks needed to do their work,
which includes allowing themselves to be ridden! All much the
same as horses!

However l have no doubt that dubious operators do exist
and need stricter enforcement laws!
I am on the elephants side on this but imo they are in a
similar situation to horses and similarly enjoy doing their
work!

Best Regards Donkeyman!
Thats what I think/thought also.
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14-05-2019, 11:37 PM
27

Re: Martin Clunes dropped by animal charity

Originally Posted by Mups ->
Donkeyman, I would like to comment on the two points I have hi-lighted if I may.

Firstly, I think you will find the elephants Puddles was talking about are usually NOT born in captivity. Their mother's are killed in the wild and the babies are stolen.

Secondly, 'dubious operators' most certainly do exist. You've have only got to read some of these links here.
These are the sadists who need dealing with urgently.

If anyone wants to understand more about the appalling 'training' these gentle, intelligent creatures have to endure in some hands, the following is a very good, though horribly gruesome link:


https://www.elephantvoices.org/eleph...ack-rides.html

As for likening them to horses, I can't imagine many horse owners using those evil bullhooks on them, stabbing them and deliberately making them bleed, nor chaining their legs up and leave them with no food and water for days on end to break their spirit and force them to comply.

I am fully aware many different types of animal get abused daily, whether it be by their owners, by yobs or strangers, or the mad scientists in laboratories with their thousands of experiments, but I will never, ever, condone any form of cruelty.
Mups that video is horrendous.
Bullhooks are always used on elephants not just in the East but in circuses all over the world now thankfully banned here .
I don't understand how anyone can be so cruel .
I used to live in South America and the training of horses there can be terribly cruel too .
Ignorance breeds cruelty .
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Puddle Duck
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15-05-2019, 12:26 AM
28

Re: Martin Clunes dropped by animal charity

Originally Posted by Tiffany ->
And you know this, how?
Because I've seen a great deal of undercover footage, read reports , watched live rescues , and follow the charities update.
It's fairly clear and easy to find.

Here's a video of elephants taking revenge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PXqDoiGWVY

For those who are not sure yet, maybe it's worth reading this. BBC report on the same subject, and that is why I fail to understand why ITV are promoting elephant rides.. .................................................. ...


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-43862182

Rajeshwari had led a hard life since she was sold to the temple in the southern state of Tamil Nadu in 1990. She would stand on stone floors for long hours to bless devotees and perform rituals like pouring or bringing water to the deities.

In 2004, she fell from an open truck on the way to a "rejuvenation" camp for captive elephants and broke her leg. She lived in pain ever since with a misshapen limb. Recently, she broke her femur when authorities used an earthmover to flip her and treat her. After that, say activists who visited the temple to check on her condition, the largely disabled pachyderm just wasted to death.
Rajeshwari's tragic story mirrors the sorry state of many of 4,000 captive elephants in India, mostly in the states of Assam, Kerala, Rajasthan and Tamil Nadu. India, according to a World Animal Protection report, is widely considered the "birthplace of taming elephants for use by humans" - a practice which began thousands of years ago. (In comparison, India has 27,000 elephants in the wild.)

In southern India, pachyderms are rented out during religious festivals for noisy parades and processions, including weddings and shop and hotel openings. They travel long distances in open vehicles and walk on tarred roads in the scorching sun for hours. (They have often gone on the run at temple festivals and killed devotees.)

Elsewhere, chained and saddled elephants are used for rides, sometimes carting tourists up and down steep forts, or entertaining tourists who wish to touch, bathe and ride them. They are also hired by political parties for campaign processions, and by companies for promoting their goods in trade fairs. They are rented out for tourism in the national parks, used for anti-depredation squads, logging activities and lately even for begging on highways.

According to media reports, more than 70 captive elephants have died under "unnatural conditions and at a young age" in private custody in just three states - Kerala, Tamil Nadu, and Rajasthan - between 2015 and 2017. Some 12 captive elephants have died this year in Kerala alone. "Most of these deaths are due to torture, abuse, overwork or faulty management practices," says Suparna Ganguly, president of the Wildlife Rescue and Rehabilitation Centre.

and there's more to read on link. ....
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Puddle Duck
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15-05-2019, 09:59 AM
29

Re: Martin Clunes dropped by animal charity

Originally Posted by Mups ->
Donkeyman, I would like to comment on the two points I have hi-lighted if I may.

Firstly, I think you will find the elephants Puddles was talking about are usually NOT born in captivity. Their mother's are killed in the wild and the babies are stolen.

Secondly, 'dubious operators' most certainly do exist. You've have only got to read some of these links here.
These are the sadists who need dealing with urgently.

If anyone wants to understand more about the appalling 'training' these gentle, intelligent creatures have to endure in some hands, the following is a very good, though horribly gruesome link:


https://www.elephantvoices.org/eleph...ack-rides.html

As for likening them to horses, I can't imagine many horse owners using those evil bullhooks on them, stabbing them and deliberately making them bleed, nor chaining their legs up and leave them with no food and water for days on end to break their spirit and force them to comply.

I am fully aware many different types of animal get abused daily, whether it be by their owners, by yobs or strangers, or the mad scientists in laboratories with their thousands of experiments, but I will never, ever, condone any form of cruelty.
Thanks for your input Mups. Exactly what I was trying to get across. I read the above link and forced myself to watch the video. It left me in pain last night.
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15-05-2019, 10:34 AM
30

Re: Martin Clunes dropped by animal charity

Originally Posted by Puddle Duck ->
Thanks for your input Mups. Exactly what I was trying to get across. I read the above link and forced myself to watch the video. It left me in pain last night.


You're welcome Puddles.
I feel strongly about any abused animals and it is not only their physical wounds I find so upsetting, it is also the side we do not see so easily - the mental damage.

I have an interesting book here about animals emotions and grief.
Some humans are so 'up themselves' they can't even consider another species feels grief much the same as we do. It is thought that elephants can even cry.

One herd in Keyna came across the jaw bone of a deceased elephant. One youngster stayed behind with this bone, continually turning the skull part over with her trunk and feet, as if lost in memories.
The elephant researcher present, said it turned out that it had been the baby's mother.
How could the baby have known that? We certainly wouldn't know a relative just from some bones, not without tests done anyway.

These herds work together, and look after each other.
I read an account of a baby getting stuck in mud and at risk of drowing in a water hole. The matriarch of the group, along with a second female, waded in to save the youngster, while a third group member began quickly trampling the earth at the edge of the waterhole to provide an escape route to solid ground for the calf.
This is true, and was filmed.

Most animals are extremely interesting if humans bother to learn about other species and not just themselves.
 
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