15-11-2018, 03:23 PM
91
Re: Cold Hard Facts Regarding Brexit.
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
->
HiNo Deal means massive financial losses.
Never thought you would be in favour of Benefits cuts Julie.
15-11-2018, 04:35 PM
92
Re: Cold Hard Facts Regarding Brexit.
Originally Posted by Julie1962
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All I keep thinking is leave with no deal can't be worse than this !
15-11-2018, 04:58 PM
93
Re: Cold Hard Facts Regarding Brexit.
Originally Posted by Solasch
->
Sure it can! Gives you an inkling of what you brought about in your country.
15-11-2018, 05:20 PM
94
Re: Cold Hard Facts Regarding Brexit.
Originally Posted by Julie1962
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Gives an inkling how EU behaves, there mantra of doing no harm and helping neighbours obviously lies that don't extend to UK
15-11-2018, 05:30 PM
95
Re: Cold Hard Facts Regarding Brexit.
Originally Posted by Judd
->
Here you go JBR, try this. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46208764
Nevertheless, I'll have a look and add my comments when I have time.
15-11-2018, 05:45 PM
96
Re: Cold Hard Facts Regarding Brexit.
Originally Posted by Solasch
->
It extends to neighbours who are part of the union. Didn't you wanna leave us behind?
15-11-2018, 06:13 PM
97
Re: Cold Hard Facts Regarding Brexit.
Originally Posted by shropshiregirl
->
OMG, where does one start! I’ve been going cross-eyed trying to get even the gist of that 500 odd page draft agreement. Below is the little of what I have gleaned. I’m sure someone will correct me if it is wrong, There is such a lot to try and take in with what little infornation we plebs have been given.Little wonder Arleen and her colleagues are spitting with fury with the blow they have been dealt by Theresa May’s betrayal. What I find hard to believe is how she could ever have agreed to the temporary backstop entrapping Northern Ireland and the UK to ever be put into place, knowing that if we are unhappy with how things are progressing, we have no right,(even though we have already left the EU), to be independent enough to say, “it is not working for us”. Instead, the decision of whether or not we will even be allowed to leave will be in the hands of an “Independent Panel” to determine whether we will be able to leave!! I cannot also believe that even though we will be out of the EU, we will still in some cases, have to make checks on goods leaving the mainland destined for another part of the UK - namely, Northern Ireland??? How the hell did that come about? I could understand if it was destined for Southern Ireland, but this should be unacceptable as it is basically a border in the middle of the sea!.
The backstop will also come under the jurisdiction of the “European Court of Justice,” again, another red line. So there are two to begin with. Keeping us in a Customs Union and still being under the ruling of the ECJ..
Just one mention of Immigration control in the draft agreement,
“The UK will “take back control” of migration from the EU, but it will happen slowly.
Fishing Rights - In the small print amongst all the jargon, there will be no conclusion until 2021 but it has been worded in such a way that French and Spanish fishermen will have the same rights as British Fishermen.
British and Scottish fishermen are said to be absolutely furious and betrayed by the government after the announcement of the implementation period effectively keeping the industry under the control of the CFP until 2020.
Fishing for Leave said: “The transition means obeying all EU law, allowing the EU to enforce detrimental laws to massacre what’s left of the British fleet. This would allow the EU to cite international law to claim the “surplus” resources Britain would no longer have the fleet to catch. If Mrs May has capitulated to EU demands to sacrifice fishing for this deal it is even more reprehensible. MP’s in coastal constituencies and beyond will be massacred.
Being a free, sovereign nation after the short term of separation is a far bigger boom than staying shackled as a vassal state to a failed EU that we voted to leave”.
Economy - Brussels has demanded “dynamic alignment” on state aid, which basically means the UK is only allowed to “cut and paste” EU regulations as they are issued. Britain must also transfer three EU tax directives into law - on the exchange of tax information, reporting on investment firms and the EU’s code of conduct on taxation.
“Non-Regression clauses” will also prevent the UK from bringing in lower standards on social, environmental and labour regulations such as working hours.
Many of these requirements would also be anathema to Conservative Brexiteers, for whom leaving the EU represented an opportunity to head towards a low-tax, light-regulation economy such as that seen in Singapore.
Well, that is as much as I have been able to digest so far, what with the spectacle of so many MP’s and PPS’s resigning and listening to the pummelling Theresa May is receiving in the House.
Just heard on the news that Jacob RM has put forward a letter for a leadership challenge!!!
Your post is not much use for your opo jbr, it's more than four lines long. Additionally it's an extremely biased rendition of what is in the draft deal (quelle surprise)
Have you thought of any questions yet?
15-11-2018, 07:52 PM
98
Re: Cold Hard Facts Regarding Brexit.
Originally Posted by JBR
->
But that's written by fifth columnists (the BBC)!Nevertheless, I'll have a look and add my comments when I have time.
The UK will "take back control" of migration from the EU, but it will happen slowly. - Unacceptable: 'slowly'?
EU citizens and their families will continue to have the right to move to live and work in the UK (and vice versa) until the end of the transition period in December 2020, but beyond the end of the transition period the UK and the EU will aim to achieve:
Arrangements for temporary entry for "business purposes"; visa-free travel for short-term visits; and co-operation on tackling illegal immigration. - Unacceptable: 'will aim to achieve' means nothing has been agreed.
During the transition period, the ECJ will maintain its current jurisdiction and powers. If the transition period is extended, the same thing happens to the ECJ's jurisdiction. - Unacceptable: the 'transition period' could be extended indefinitely.
If no long-term trade agreement between the UK and the EU is concluded and the transition period comes to an end, then the so-called backstop arrangements will take effect. Under these plans, the UK and the EU will form a single customs territory.
At this point the ECJ will not be able to resolve disputes between the UK and EU. Instead there will be a dispute resolution procedure which provides for arbitration. However, the arbitration panel must refer any matter which concerns the interpretation of EU law to the ECJ. - Unacceptable: however it is worded, the ECJ will still be able to make decisions both during and after the 'transition period'.
In the immediate aftermath of Brexit, the answer would be "no change". We go into a transition or implementation period during which EU laws continue to apply. It ends on 31 December 2020 but can be extended. During the transition period, there will be further negotiations to establish the long-term relationship. - Unacceptable: again, the 'transition period' can be extended. For how long?
The aim is trade in goods without tariffs or quantitative restrictions. But does that mean no checks at all? That will depend on how well aligned the UK's rules on goods are with those of the EU. - Unacceptable: we shall still have to 'align' our rules with those of the EU.
On services, the aim is an agreement to liberalise trade between the UK and EU. - Unacceptable: an 'aim', but no agreement.
If there is no deal on the long-term relationship that makes a hard border on the island of Ireland unnecessary, the "backstop" comes into force. That would keep the whole UK in what the draft calls "a single customs territory", which seems to be a customs union in all but name - no tariffs on trade between the UK and the EU, and the UK unable to set a tariff on trade from third countries that is lower than the EU's. - Unacceptable: we are still tied to EU customs and shall be unable to make our own trade agreements with non-EU countries.
Some goods coming into Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK would be subject to new checks and controls if the Brexit backstop is implemented. The backstop would mean Northern Ireland would have to stay aligned to some rules of the EU single market. - Unacceptable: the EU would split the UK and NI would remain under their control.
There is some ambiguity over whether the European Arrest Warrant extradition system will work anywhere near as smoothly as it does presently. Under a special caveat, nations could tell the UK that they can no longer send suspects to face trial because their own constitution may not allow them to do so. - Unacceptable: there may as well be no extradition system. Either 'yes' or 'no'.
And once transition ends, so does the access to data. The deal includes an explicit article that will lock the UK out of all EU databases and systems at the end of 2020.
But the document also acknowledges that there may be legal roadblocks that prevent the EU sharing data with the UK on anything like the current scale. - Unacceptable: this sounds one-sided. If anything, it should work both ways.
Beyond a confirmation that existing funding up to 2020 is assured, there is still no detail on how the UK might take part in future EU research partnerships. Either way, nothing will change until 2020, and the door seems left open for further negotiation, clarification and reciprocal arrangements. - Unacceptable: again, wishy-washy. No agreement made here.
Co-operation on radioisotopes, so crucial to medical treatments, will be through "an exchange of information". Although, again, no detail is given. - Unacceptable: again, no clear agreement made.
And the document envisages the UK will participate in EU programmes on science and innovation although, of course, that is subject to "conditions" yet to be agreed. - Unacceptable: yet again, no clear agreement made.
15-11-2018, 07:58 PM
99
Re: Cold Hard Facts Regarding Brexit.
Originally Posted by shropshiregirl
->
OMG, where does one start! I’ve been going cross-eyed trying to get even the gist of that 500 odd page draft agreement. Below is the little of what I have gleaned. I’m sure someone will correct me if it is wrong, There is such a lot to try and take in with what little infornation we plebs have been given.Little wonder Arleen and her colleagues are spitting with fury with the blow they have been dealt by Theresa May’s betrayal. What I find hard to believe is how she could ever have agreed to the temporary backstop entrapping Northern Ireland and the UK to ever be put into place, knowing that if we are unhappy with how things are progressing, we have no right,(even though we have already left the EU), to be independent enough to say, “it is not working for us”. Instead, the decision of whether or not we will even be allowed to leave will be in the hands of an “Independent Panel” to determine whether we will be able to leave!! I cannot also believe that even though we will be out of the EU, we will still in some cases, have to make checks on goods leaving the mainland destined for another part of the UK - namely, Northern Ireland??? How the hell did that come about? I could understand if it was destined for Southern Ireland, but this should be unacceptable as it is basically a border in the middle of the sea!.
The backstop will also come under the jurisdiction of the “European Court of Justice,” again, another red line. So there are two to begin with. Keeping us in a Customs Union and still being under the ruling of the ECJ..
Just one mention of Immigration control in the draft agreement,
“The UK will “take back control” of migration from the EU, but it will happen slowly.
Fishing Rights - In the small print amongst all the jargon, there will be no conclusion until 2021 but it has been worded in such a way that French and Spanish fishermen will have the same rights as British Fishermen.
British and Scottish fishermen are said to be absolutely furious and betrayed by the government after the announcement of the implementation period effectively keeping the industry under the control of the CFP until 2020.
Fishing for Leave said: “The transition means obeying all EU law, allowing the EU to enforce detrimental laws to massacre what’s left of the British fleet. This would allow the EU to cite international law to claim the “surplus” resources Britain would no longer have the fleet to catch. If Mrs May has capitulated to EU demands to sacrifice fishing for this deal it is even more reprehensible. MP’s in coastal constituencies and beyond will be massacred.
Being a free, sovereign nation after the short term of separation is a far bigger boom than staying shackled as a vassal state to a failed EU that we voted to leave”.
Economy - Brussels has demanded “dynamic alignment” on state aid, which basically means the UK is only allowed to “cut and paste” EU regulations as they are issued. Britain must also transfer three EU tax directives into law - on the exchange of tax information, reporting on investment firms and the EU’s code of conduct on taxation.
“Non-Regression clauses” will also prevent the UK from bringing in lower standards on social, environmental and labour regulations such as working hours.
Many of these requirements would also be anathema to Conservative Brexiteers, for whom leaving the EU represented an opportunity to head towards a low-tax, light-regulation economy such as that seen in Singapore.
Well, that is as much as I have been able to digest so far, what with the spectacle of so many MP’s and PPS’s resigning and listening to the pummelling Theresa May is receiving in the House.
Just heard on the news that Jacob RM has put forward a letter for a leadership challenge!!!
I do hope that others join JRM in his challenge. Treason May losing her position would be the best thing for this country. I'd prefer to have friends in charge rather than fifth columnists.
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