05-10-2015, 12:03 PM
1
Capitalism or Socialism?
Capitalism or Socialism?I get the feeling we in the UK (and elsewhere) shouldn't be overly concerned about who governs this country and what political ideology they are following as it all works itself out in the end. Seems to me that there are a set of scales balancing out free enterprise (capitalism) and welfare concerns (socialism). Just like other countries have moved from one to the other it is a natural cycle, with the more swing shown when countering any extreme bias.
Take the renewed interest in Jeremy Corbyn for instance? What is it but a reaction to the radical approach to the Tories and the erosion of the welfare state - swings and roundabouts once more.
I'm currently reading a book called 'The Jungle' by Upton Sinclair written in 1906 yet is as relevant today as it ever was. An horrific read illustrating greed and corruption in all its potency - rife throughout the stinking hell holes of America at that time (any different now I wonder?) . Aspects of the book are still very evident in our society (and every other) today.
The Jungle by Upton Sinclair
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle
Originally Posted by Wiki
The book depicts working class poverty, the lack of social supports, harsh and unpleasant living and working conditions, and a hopelessness among many workers. These elements are contrasted with the deeply rooted corruption of people in power. A review by the writer Jack London called it, "the Uncle Tom's Cabin of wage slavery".[3]
So to sum up the best approach is one of capitalism tempered with a fair dose of socialism. Now if one party would own up to this realisation we could move forward with confidence, without the nagging concern constantly hanging over our heads as to the next party wrecking everything for the sake of it.
Mind you I'm contradicting myself a fair bit by summarising in such a fashion above come to think of it as everything is fine isn't it? Why upset the status quo?
05-10-2015, 12:20 PM
3
Re: Capitalism or Socialism?
I think capitalism is failing and it's inevitable eventually the rich will turn on themselves when they have picked the bones clean of the poor. It just as communism cannot work for ever.We worship money and judge people who don't have any, we should be looking for a better system stop the greed and envy (yes I am a star trek fan and we could IMO learn a lot from the approach of working for a common good.)
05-10-2015, 12:41 PM
4
Re: Capitalism or Socialism?
I think any student these days should consider the harsh realities that could be facing them by not acquiring the right learning. The future looks decidedly 'rough' to me with regard to job choices at the lower end of the market. Consider the impact robotics will have eventually? It could be that only jobs by bosses who can't afford robots will be available - mindless, repetitive, soul destroying jobs. Look to the future and pick your choice of profession wisely is all I can say.As for capitalism it is here to stay in one form or another for quite a while yet. Again I reckon robots will play a major part in any social reform as they will either be our saviors or play a part in our destruction ...
*jaws drum roll*
06-10-2015, 02:39 AM
5
Re: Capitalism or Socialism?
[QUOTE=So to sum up the best approach is one of capitalism tempered with a fair dose of socialism.?[/QUOTE]
I was brought up in a communist household - my father was a committed communist and repeatedly told me that capitalism was ultimately self-destructive because you can't eternally produce goods and services for profit without eventually alienating the poor. There is truth in that but as I grew up I rejected communism as also self-destructive for other reasons.
I think the nearest any country got to a workable and fair system was Sweden in the 70s and 80s. i lived there briefly and have visited over the years and talked it over with Swedish people. It was exactly what you describe - controlled capitalism with a good dose of socialism. It worked for a few decades and then greed rose its ugly head again. It's sad but I don't think we will ever overcome the individual greed of some humans and it probably comes from our evolutionary need for survival of the fittest and the competitive streak that lies deep within most of us.
I would like to think we could all be educated to see the longterm value of equality and social justice and that a more equal society is ultimately a safer, more secure and civil society. In a society where no one lives in poverty, all have equal access to employment, health, education, social welfare, etc, there is less crime, better health, greater life satisfaction, more productivity and all that eventually means less cost to the government. It doesn't mean no one can earn more than anyone else as in the communist manifesto it just means you even out society a lot more.
For a few decades in the 70s and 80s Australia was also verging on something near to that but in the end right wing conservatism reared its head and we now live under a similar conservative regime to the UK where profit and greed are the guiding principles so that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and apparently that's their own fault.
I think in the end you're right. Some humans have the ability to see the benefits to the whole of society and themselves in being less selfish, more concerned with the big picture, and some don't, and so as you say, it just swings backwards and forwards.
06-10-2015, 06:48 AM
6
Re: Capitalism or Socialism?
Originally Posted by Julie1962
->
I think capitalism is failing and it's inevitable eventually the rich will turn on themselves when they have picked the bones clean of the poor. It just as communism cannot work for ever. We worship money and judge people who don't have any, we should be looking for a better system stop the greed and envy (yes I am a star trek fan and we could IMO learn a lot from the approach of working for a common good.)
06-10-2015, 10:51 AM
7
Re: Capitalism or Socialism?
Originally Posted by jaywalker
->
I was brought up in a communist household - my father was a committed communist and repeatedly told me that capitalism was ultimately self-destructive because you can't eternally produce goods and services for profit without eventually alienating the poor. There is truth in that but as I grew up I rejected communism as also self-destructive for other reasons.I think the nearest any country got to a workable and fair system was Sweden in the 70s and 80s. i lived there briefly and have visited over the years and talked it over with Swedish people. It was exactly what you describe - controlled capitalism with a good dose of socialism. It worked for a few decades and then greed rose its ugly head again. It's sad but I don't think we will ever overcome the individual greed of some humans and it probably comes from our evolutionary need for survival of the fittest and the competitive streak that lies deep within most of us.
I would like to think we could all be educated to see the longterm value of equality and social justice and that a more equal society is ultimately a safer, more secure and civil society. In a society where no one lives in poverty, all have equal access to employment, health, education, social welfare, etc, there is less crime, better health, greater life satisfaction, more productivity and all that eventually means less cost to the government. It doesn't mean no one can earn more than anyone else as in the communist manifesto it just means you even out society a lot more.
For a few decades in the 70s and 80s Australia was also verging on something near to that but in the end right wing conservatism reared its head and we now live under a similar conservative regime to the UK where profit and greed are the guiding principles so that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and apparently that's their own fault.
I think in the end you're right. Some humans have the ability to see the benefits to the whole of society and themselves in being less selfish, more concerned with the big picture, and some don't, and so as you say, it just swings backwards and forwards.
.
06-10-2015, 11:01 AM
9
Re: Capitalism or Socialism?
Originally Posted by Julie1962
->
I think capitalism is failing and it's inevitable eventually the rich will turn on themselves when they have picked the bones clean of the poor. It just as communism cannot work for ever. We worship money and judge people who don't have any, we should be looking for a better system stop the greed and envy (yes I am a star trek fan and we could IMO learn a lot from the approach of working for a common good.)
To be honest with you I don't think we will ever achieve a kind of utopian existence where everyone's needs are catered for owing to our aggressive nature. Unless our aggression can be channeled away from the need to make money we are sunk. Maybe sport will be the answer eventually but I doubt it? Maybe space will be the answer as we head off to conquer other planets? All pie in the sky really as all it would take to wreck everything are a few nukes
.We are all doomed!
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