01-11-2020, 09:24 PM
341
Re: Coronavirus: Second wave of Covid-19 coming to UK, says PM
Originally Posted by Omah
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"As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know. "United States Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld at a U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) news briefing on February 12, 2002
01-11-2020, 09:32 PM
342
Re: Coronavirus: Second wave of Covid-19 coming to UK, says PM
Originally Posted by Bruce
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Interesting opinion piece on the ABC web site from their European correspondent about Boris and his handling of the second wave:On the weekend, the British people were told for the first time ever their health system may not be able to care for them within weeks.
Yes, that's the same nation that was bombed to smithereens by the Germans during The Blitz in Word War II.
After a chaotic day of political decision making, and well into their Saturday evening (local time), Prime Minister Boris Johnson told them very soon they could turn up to a hospital, in say Liverpool or London, and be turned away.
The no vacancy sign would be up around the country and people would die after being turned away from emergency departments.
Is there anything grimmer than that?
By the time the Prime Minister delivered that news, he had already presided over a day of complete political chaos.
In times of crisis clear, concise, political leadership is a not just a desire of the masses but a must for the stability of a nation.
The message does not need to be Churchillian, but decisive clarity always helps.
Unfortunately, COVID-19 has pushed the UK into a very deep crisis, and England precisely does not have a steady hand steering the ship.
Let's look back at the weekend of indecision and political panic, as an example.
On Saturday, Britain woke to news reports that they'd be facing another national lockdown.
Behind the walls of Downing Street, Boris Johnson was fuming.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-...ng-st/12837276
You forgot to copy and paste the end of the article ....
Let's spare a thought for the thousands of people who will die in the weeks ahead, and for their families who will suffer so deeply during a festive season full of misery and grief.
Thanks for Australias pre-dated condolences.
01-11-2020, 09:45 PM
343
Re: Coronavirus: Second wave of Covid-19 coming to UK, says PM
Originally Posted by Morticia
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I never realised Aussies hated us so much. You live and learn.You forgot to copy and paste the end of the article ....
Let's spare a thought for the thousands of people who will die in the weeks ahead, and for their families who will suffer so deeply during a festive season full of misery and grief.
Thanks for Australias pre-dated condolences.
I only copy and paste a bit of an article to give the gist of it and always include the source so you can read it yourself.
There was a report on yesterday's news that it is estimated by British scientists that the death count will peak at Christmas.
01-11-2020, 11:30 PM
344
Re: Coronavirus: Second wave of Covid-19 coming to UK, says PM
Infections are increasing because some people are completely ignoring the rules. Nobody is enforcing them. They have parties and sleepovers, congregate in places with no social distance and nobody can stop them. If people wear masks under their nose or pull it down to talk to people then what's the point?The main benefit in delaying the virus is that in time we will a) hopefully have a vaccine that reduces the spread, b) have an effective treatment that prevents deaths, c) understand better why some people are more prone and take appropriate action.
01-11-2020, 11:45 PM
345
Re: Coronavirus: Second wave of Covid-19 coming to UK, says PM
Originally Posted by Bruce
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I didn't see it as a hateful article just an analysis of the current situation and the appalling way the Clown Prince is handling it. Britain has the worst Covid record in Europe but criticizing a leader is not hating a country.I only copy and paste a bit of an article to give the gist of it and always include the source so you can read it yourself.
There was a report on yesterday's news that it is estimated by British scientists that the death count will peak at Christmas.
It's more what has gone on before that has made things more tricky in the UK. We've had several years of political turmoil and three leaders grappling with the unmentionable. Everything else was neglected in that time.
02-11-2020, 01:22 AM
346
Re: Coronavirus: Second wave of Covid-19 coming to UK, says PM
Originally Posted by Morticia
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Actually, I thought that was pretty concise and understandable compared to what Trump often comes out with.
The term was also commonly used inside NASA. Rumsfeld himself cited NASA administrator William Graham in his memoir; he wrote that he had first heard "a variant of the phrase" from Graham when they served together on the Commission to Assess the Ballistic Missile Threat to the United States during the late-1990s. Kirk Borne, an astrophysicist who was employed as a data scientist at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center at the time, noted in an April 2013 TED talk that he had used the phrase "unknown unknowns" in a talk to personnel at the Homeland Security Transition Planning Office a few days prior to Rumsfeld's remarks, and speculated that the term may have percolated up to Rumsfeld and other high-ranking officials in the defense department.
The terms "known unknowns" and "unknown unknowns" are now often used in project management and strategic planning circles.
02-11-2020, 05:14 AM
347
Re: Coronavirus: Second wave of Covid-19 coming to UK, says PM
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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I don't think any world leader is doing a good or bad job to contain this. They are all being criticised to some extent at home. (well maybe not NZ, they are special...). It has to be the toughest situation for any leader to try to cope with. Worse than a war, at least with that you know the enemy and can form a strategy. It's more what has gone on before that has made things more tricky in the UK. We've had several years of political turmoil and three leaders grappling with the unmentionable. Everything else was neglected in that time.
There is no pleasing everyone of course but the recent Queensland election results demonstrate how the Queensland Premier was seen to have handled the pandemic well (a 5% swing to an incumbent Labor government) and I don't think there has been any major criticism of any state Premier except Victoria's and even he was seen to deal with the second wave effectively.
You have to remember too that State Premiers have a lot of power compared to other regional leaders (ie people like Nicola Sturgeon) in the UK where all the power is centralised. It is state premiers who shut the borders, directed the health services, dealt with hotel quarantine and lockdowns.
The only squabbling has been between state Premiers over border closures.
New Zealand, as you say, is the gold standard.
On the other hand the UK government seems to have been ineffective, incompetent and with no clear direction right from the very beginning of this crisis. This has continued to the present day.
It might be a failure of the UK press that this is not clear locally but from afar it is like the farce of Brexit all over again except that this time it is an unfolding tragedy of people's health and welfare. Three years of Brexit could be treated like an ongoing joke but a pandemic cannot.
The statistics tell the tale. None of us are out of the woods yet.
02-11-2020, 11:54 AM
348
Re: Coronavirus: Second wave of Covid-19 coming to UK, says PM
https://gbdeclaration.orgGreat Barrington Declaration
Coming from both the left and right, and around the world, we have devoted our careers to protecting people. Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results (to name a few) include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health – leading to greater excess mortality in years to come, with the working class and younger members of society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice.
Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed.
02-11-2020, 08:06 PM
349
Re: Coronavirus: Second wave of Covid-19 coming to UK, says PM
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/Last updated on Monday 2 November 2020 at 4:00pm
Old Version:
Total recorded cases OVER 1,000,000 ..... and rising .....
New Version:
Cases at a terrifying high*, deaths rising fast, hospitalisations increasing fast, test capacity increased to 520,000 but processing only 51% .....
02-11-2020, 08:29 PM
350
Re: Coronavirus: Second wave of Covid-19 coming to UK, says PM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...g-tory-criticsBoris Johnson, in a statement to the Commons lasting almost two and a half hours, repeatedly stressed that the lockdown legislation would only apply until 2 December and that MPs would have to vote on what happened next. He claimed that mass testing would be the route to a more normal future. In his opening statement he said:
These tests, crucially, identify people who are infectious but do not have symptoms, allowing them immediately to self-isolate and stop the spread of the disease,and allowing those who are not infectious to continue as normal.
And so over the next few days and weeks, we plan a steady but massive expansion in the deployment of these quick turnaround tests which we will be manufacturing in this country applying them in an ever-growing number of situations, from helping women to have their partners with them in labour wards when they’re giving birth, to testing whole towns and even cities.
..... 
https://www.consultancy.uk/news/2561...er-100-billion
21 September 2020
Another report, this time with online news platform openDemocracy, meanwhile suggested that alongside G4S, Serco, Boots, Sainsbury’s, AstraZeneca, GSK and Smith and Nephew, Big Four firm Deloitte had also been paid by the Government for helping design Project Moonshot. One senior informed openDemocracy that Deloitte – which also had a role in the Government’s earlier attempts to ramp up testing – was being given the contract to deliver more than half of the work, which they also described as “crazy,” having “double-checked the figures" Moonshot was aiming for.
In August, it emerged the industry had received contracts worth £56 million to help with the national response to the coronavirus. Deloitte, Cambridge Consultants and PwC took the three largest fees, pocketing some £23 million between them. It is not surprising then that the news of private consultancies once again being handed public funds to implement the Government’s response to Covid-19 has drawn criticism from opposition figures.
Labour MP Clive Lewis dubbed the deal as “potentially the biggest NHS privatisation in history.” Questioning why the work could not be given to the NHS to do in-house, Lewis added, “It’s too easy to get the impression that this Government will hand out contracts to whoever happens to be mates with the right minister.”
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