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Solasch
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18-08-2019, 01:34 PM
41

Re: Breakup of the UK

Originally Posted by Moscow ->
Only if you are happy with the future direction of travel within that Union

For the UK the direction is for more devolved powers for the constituent countries and regions and decentralisation.

For the EU it is for less Sovereignity for member States , centralisation of national powers and decision making to Brussels and ultimately to the federalisation of all States within the EU to create a United States of Europe ( an EU Empire) , with an EU Army, EU foreign Office and an EU currency for every member state.

THAT, Solly, is the difference that you don't want to talk about!
Did the EU stop you from organizing a refetendum on membership?
Tell me who/where is decided whether the scots are allowed to organize a referendum on their "membership".
That mossy, is the real difference. Do you want to talk about it?
scot37
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19-08-2019, 01:26 PM
42

Re: Breakup of the UK

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
Did the EU stop you from organizing a refetendum on membership?
Tell me who/where is decided whether the scots are allowed to organize a referendum on their "membership".
That mossy, is the real difference. Do you want to talk about it?
Scotland is still part of the UK Solasch. We had an independence referendum in 2014 and 55.3% voted to stay in the UK with a 84.6 turnout. Since then the SNP have lost seats in both Holyrood and Westminster so that should tell you something.
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Solasch
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19-08-2019, 01:35 PM
43

Re: Breakup of the UK

Originally Posted by scot37 ->
Scotland is still part of the UK Solasch. We had an independence referendum in 2014 and 55.3% voted to stay in the UK with a 84.6 turnout. Since then the SNP have lost seats in both Holyrood and Westminster so that should tell you something.
It tells me nothing about the wish by a part of the scottish population to organise another referendum, and the english deciding on that.
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19-08-2019, 01:41 PM
44

Re: Breakup of the UK

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
It tells me nothing about the wish by a part of the scottish population to organise another referendum, and the english deciding on that.
And what about the majority of voters who voted to stay in the UK. Are you just going to ignore them?
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Solasch
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19-08-2019, 01:45 PM
45

Re: Breakup of the UK

Originally Posted by scot37 ->
And what about the majority of voters who voted to stay in the UK. Are you just going to ignore them?
No, they will vote again. If they are still part of a majority nothing changes. But democracy has been served.
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19-08-2019, 10:26 PM
46

Re: Breakup of the UK

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
No, they will vote again. If they are still part of a majority nothing changes. But democracy has been served.
Democracy was served in 2014. You cannot keep holding referendums until you get the result you want.
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19-08-2019, 10:49 PM
47

Re: Breakup of the UK

Originally Posted by scot37 ->
Democracy was served in 2014. You cannot keep holding referendums until you get the result you want.
Surely we are in a scenario of fundamentally different situation? In Indyref1 we had a UK in the EU and a EU bunch of politicians against breakaway regions joining the EU. And a UK struggling to deal with self-imposed austerity and come out of the 2008-10 recession.
Now we have an England determined to come out of the EU at any cost, an EU more willing to consider countries such as Scotland as entrants (please, we know there will be preconditions), and a Scottish mindset clearer that the English economic/social aspiration is not that of Scotland. England seeks free market, neo-liberal, low regulation, low cost, low tax, low pay economy. Scotland is, as it has traditionally been, much more sympathetic to the Northern European model. It is time for a break.
I just feel sorry for northern English who will look 30-40 miles north and prefer that country to the southern wealthy run England they live in.
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19-08-2019, 11:05 PM
48

Re: Breakup of the UK

Originally Posted by scot37 ->
Democracy was served in 2014. You cannot keep holding referendums until you get the result you want.
I suppose that if corbyn becomes pm in next GE, you prefer to postpone the next till 2030?
Or is there to be a GE every 5 years?
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20-08-2019, 08:03 AM
49

Re: Breakup of the UK

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
I suppose that if corbyn becomes pm in next GE, you prefer to postpone the next till 2030?
Or is there to be a GE every 5 years?

Under fixed term parliament its every 4 years
weedeek
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20-08-2019, 08:42 AM
50

Re: Breakup of the UK

Originally Posted by gascony ->
Surely we are in a scenario of fundamentally different situation? In Indyref1 we had a UK in the EU and a EU bunch of politicians against breakaway regions joining the EU. And a UK struggling to deal with self-imposed austerity and come out of the 2008-10 recession.
Now we have an England determined to come out of the EU at any cost, an EU more willing to consider countries such as Scotland as entrants (please, we know there will be preconditions), and a Scottish mindset clearer that the English economic/social aspiration is not that of Scotland. England seeks free market, neo-liberal, low regulation, low cost, low tax, low pay economy. Scotland is, as it has traditionally been, much more sympathetic to the Northern European model. It is time for a break.
I just feel sorry for northern English who will look 30-40 miles north and prefer that country to the southern wealthy run England they live in.
Exactly Gascony! Brexit ,being forced on a Scotland that is sympathetic to the North European model , fundamentally changes everything. As for the opposition to another referendum, the UK voted by 67% to 33% in 1975 to remain in the EU in 1975, so why did we have another vote?
The idea of re-building Hadrians Wall has been raised on here, maybe that is the answer for some in Northern England as it would “free” much of Cumbria and Northumbria.
 
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