23-01-2021, 04:26 PM
91
Re: Convid Vaccine. Government playing doctor, making life and death decision
Originally Posted by Dodge
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Your just being pedantic for obvious reasons.Anyone who is a regular reader of the news can see what the media is doing. In one major news article you had journalists from nearly all the main stream press reporting on the fact that Scotland is rolling out the vaccine far far slower than that of everywhere else in the UK and thus putting extreme pressure on Nicola sturgeon as to why Scotland is lagging behind the rest of the UK.
Then you get reports of how quickly people in London are receiving the vaccine than those in other parts of the country and the numbers of people who are getting the vaccine.
There have been news articles where roll out of the vaccine is slower in parts of the North than that of some parts of the South.
And in all of these news articles you get numbers of how many people have been vaccinated with the journalist making comments of such and such and area is doing better than others.
Yes the roll out of the vaccine can be due to a number of factors BUT the way the journalists are wording their news articles are doing it in such a way that it's a kind of competition 'oh look, this area is beating this area in the roll out of the vaccine', 'oh look, this area is lagging behind in the number of people being vaccinated but this other area is doing good'.
There would be a lot less political turmoil if they just reported real news rather than promote their editors political ideals! 
23-01-2021, 06:07 PM
92
Re: Convid Vaccine. Government playing doctor, making life and death decision
Originally Posted by Twink55
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Journalists have always done this! There would be a lot less political turmoil if they just reported real news rather than promote their editors political ideals!
FWIW I posted elsewhere the other day about a UK factory being built which will supposedly be ready by the end of the year.
The purpose of this factory IIRC is to manufacture new vaccines for variations/mutations of Covid-19 and that these would take an estimated three to four months to prepare.
*Goes & hunts for article*
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/v...ad-of-schedule
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-factory.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccin...ovation_Centre
23-01-2021, 08:11 PM
93
Re: Convid Vaccine. Government playing doctor, making life and death decision
Per the original post, the minute I read that the vaccine was in two doses, I knew there was going to be an uproar about people getting that second vaccine before many received the first.As someone who is waaaaaaaay down the list for getting the shots, my sense is that we need to follow the manufacturers' instructions per the research, even though it was done at break-neck speed.
Go ahead and give the second dose those who had the first per the recommendations. All of these people are at the highest risk, so it saves us all a fortune by maximizing their protection.
A month or two is not going to make a hill of beans difference for the rest of us who are at lower risk.
23-01-2021, 09:32 PM
94
Re: Convid Vaccine. Government playing doctor, making life and death decision
The government just needs to hope and pray that anyone given the 1st dosage does not die from the virus within the 12 week period of having their 2nd dosage because the vaccine makers have stated that the trials of the vaccine were only effective at 90% and above when receiving the 2nd dosage 21 days later. The effectiveness of the vaccine was not tested beyond that so regardless of what the government and their advisors say, the science does not back up their statement that the 1st dosage should be ok for 12 week period.If anyone of the 1st dosage vaccine does unfortunately die of the virus whilst waiting for the 2nd dosage, I have no doubt the Department of Health will be facing an unlawful death case in the courts.
23-01-2021, 09:55 PM
95
Re: Convid Vaccine. Government playing doctor, making life and death decision
Originally Posted by Dodge
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The government just needs to hope and pray that anyone given the 1st dosage does not die from the virus within the 12 week period of having their 2nd dosage because the vaccine makers have stated that the trials of the vaccine were only effective at 90% and above when receiving the 2nd dosage 21 days later. The effectiveness of the vaccine was not tested beyond that so regardless of what the government and their advisors say, the science does not back up their statement that the 1st dosage should be ok for 12 week period.If anyone of the 1st dosage vaccine does unfortunately die of the virus whilst waiting for the 2nd dosage, I have no doubt the Department of Health will be facing an unlawful death case in the courts.
23-01-2021, 10:05 PM
96
Re: Convid Vaccine. Government playing doctor, making life and death decision
I think the 12 week delay between 1st and 2nd vaccines will mean millions more get their first dose during that 12 week interval. During that time, if the infection rate falls sufficiently, Boris may claim his longed for "herd immunity" and decide that the further vaccinations and second vaccinations are no longer necessary...............saving the country £££.23-01-2021, 11:18 PM
97
Re: Convid Vaccine. Government playing doctor, making life and death decision
Originally Posted by JBR
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Does this apply to all types of the vaccines?
23-01-2021, 11:48 PM
98
Re: Convid Vaccine. Government playing doctor, making life and death decision
Originally Posted by Lindyloo
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I think the 12 week delay between 1st and 2nd vaccines will mean millions more get their first dose during that 12 week interval. During that time, if the infection rate falls sufficiently, Boris may claim his longed for "herd immunity" and decide that the further vaccinations and second vaccinations are no longer necessary...............saving the country £££.
This is one article but it's on a medical website one has to sign up to BUT the headline of the article gives proof of a legal challenge being launched
https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/cl...vaccine-delay/
The other challenge is the more well know one
https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/lif...nd-pfizer-jab/
This one has a good chance of causing problems for the government because it specifically raises 3 points of contention, which are:
1. The move to delay doses appears to be “contrary to the instructions for use” that had been agreed between the regulator the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and Pfizer - Basically meaning the Pfizer vaccine was given regulatory approval primarily based on the efficiency rating of the vaccine when both vaccine doses are administrated within 21 days.
2. Does not appear there was a proper or lawful basis for the Government to depart from the MHRA’s assessment of the vaccine - Basically meaning the government did not get regulatory approval to change the conditions of the vaccine rollout which they would be required to do by law. The regulator approved the Pfizer vaccine based on the scientific data that to get 90% or above efficiency rate the 2nd dose much be administered 21 days after the 1st dose. If any changes to this time line were to be made, the regulator would have to approve it. The fact the MHRA has not approved the 12 week time line means the government has broken the law.
3. A third issue is a “breach of legitimate expectations”, with patients consenting to a course of medical treatment on the understanding they would get a second dose after 21 days - Basically meaning when patients were told they were getting the vaccine, due to the very publicised nature that the vaccine was 90% effective when the 2nd dose is administered 21 days after the 1st, patients would have gladly accepted this and thus accepted to have the vaccine. If on the other hand had they been told the government has changed the rollout policy and that they would receive the 2nd dose 12 weeks later, would the patients have agreed to have the vaccine, knowing that it works are receiving the 2nd dose 21 days after having the 1st dose and that there is no evidence of the vaccine being effective if given the 2nd dose 12 weeks later.
If the people use the same lawyer that Gina Miller used when she took on the government and won, TWICE, I think the government could lose these challenges.
23-01-2021, 11:57 PM
99
Re: Convid Vaccine. Government playing doctor, making life and death decision
Originally Posted by Dodge
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.If anyone of the 1st dosage vaccine does unfortunately die of the virus whilst waiting for the 2nd dosage, I have no doubt the Department of Health will be facing an unlawful death case in the courts.
24-01-2021, 12:16 AM
100
Re: Convid Vaccine. Government playing doctor, making life and death decision
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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Not much of a legal case given that no vaccine is 100% effective for everyone in the population.
There is no evidence how effective the vaccine is when the 2nd dose is administered 12 weeks later because the makers of the vaccine never tested for this scenario. Would the vaccine have been given approval if the makers had said there could be a 20% of the vaccine being effective when given 12 weeks later, or maybe 30% effective or 40% effective. The regulator would not have approved the vaccine if that was the case.
There is absolutely nothing, and i mean NOTHING to support the governments argument that the 1st dose of the vaccine means it will still be effective once given the 2nd dose 12 weeks later. But yet the government is going around saying it's OK and people are accepting it. It's wrong, utterly and totally wrong and it is very contemptuous for the government to behave in this way.
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