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03-01-2021, 04:07 PM
21

Re: Return devolved powers to Westminster

Originally Posted by JBR ->
That would be a very good idea, and not just for Scotland.

Look at Saddick in Londonistan. He wastes enormous amounts of money, yet is heavily subsidised from central coffers. If the population of London had to pay for his idiotic plans, he'd be assassinated long before he could be kicked out!

Blew £1.5 million of tax papers money on a BLM firework display and EU flag coloured fireworks. I'm sure that all the starving families using food banks were impressed. He should have spent it on stab vests and the people
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03-01-2021, 04:31 PM
22

Re: Return devolved powers to Westminster

Originally Posted by Bread ->
Devolved parliaments should pay for their devolved policies through their own taxation systems. Scotland in particular should stop getting extra money from the UK tax payer when they should be raising their taxes to pay for them themselves. The voter should know who is paying for the stupid stunts and ideological bull$hit from the SNP.
TBH if JBR's proposition is to be given serious consideration, this is the only realistic way it could be done.
Because as you rightly point out, each and every voter should know exactly who is paying for what AND where the money has come from.

The technology already exists to ensure that a complete and accurate financial statement for any area should be possible at the press of a few buttons, so-to-speak.
So it should be possible for citizens of any area to have a complete and accurate picture, thus avoiding many if not all of the deliberately misleading messages that dissenting factions currently use to their benefit.

The drawback of course is that areas are still so large that it is still open to dissenters who feel distanced from decisions; where I am on the coast for example is a long way from and a lot less populous than, say, Northampton or Leicester and with far different needs.

Maybe if we could abolish the HoL and replace it with a smaller but regional system based on the above ideas of devolved areas ...................................
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03-01-2021, 04:46 PM
23

Re: Return devolved powers to Westminster

Petition signed.
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Harbal
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03-01-2021, 04:55 PM
24

Re: Return devolved powers to Westminster

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
No.
Not someone who disagrees with me, but someone who disagrees with the majority.
I am not one of those with a flawed or selfish vision of what democracy truly entails.

Your "disingenuous Brexiteers" were such a majority and I could ask you equally if your own feelings were caused by an inability to respect a majority's decision purely because of your own disagreement as a result of your personal opinion?
Democracy when you agree with the outcome but otherwise no thanks.
You make it sound like there are just two positions: right and wrong. Well I am not one of those with a flawed vision of what reality truly entails.
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03-01-2021, 04:59 PM
25

Re: Return devolved powers to Westminster

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
TBH if JBR's proposition is to be given serious consideration, this is the only realistic way it could be done.
Because as you rightly point out, each and every voter should know exactly who is paying for what AND where the money has come from.

The technology already exists to ensure that a complete and accurate financial statement for any area should be possible at the press of a few buttons, so-to-speak.
So it should be possible for citizens of any area to have a complete and accurate picture, thus avoiding many if not all of the deliberately misleading messages that dissenting factions currently use to their benefit.

The drawback of course is that areas are still so large that it is still open to dissenters who feel distanced from decisions; where I am on the coast for example is a long way from and a lot less populous than, say, Northampton or Leicester and with far different needs.

Maybe if we could abolish the HoL and replace it with a smaller but regional system based on the above ideas of devolved areas ...................................

We already know Scotland financial position, they have the biggest budget deficit in the EU.
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03-01-2021, 05:14 PM
26

Re: Return devolved powers to Westminster

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
TBH if JBR's proposition is to be given serious consideration, this is the only realistic way it could be done.
Because as you rightly point out, each and every voter should know exactly who is paying for what AND where the money has come from.

The technology already exists to ensure that a complete and accurate financial statement for any area should be possible at the press of a few buttons, so-to-speak.
So it should be possible for citizens of any area to have a complete and accurate picture, thus avoiding many if not all of the deliberately misleading messages that dissenting factions currently use to their benefit.

The drawback of course is that areas are still so large that it is still open to dissenters who feel distanced from decisions; where I am on the coast for example is a long way from and a lot less populous than, say, Northampton or Leicester and with far different needs.
I agree, but I think that is inevitable. Scotland is the same and is a bigger area than any of the English regions. I'm sure there is dissention there certainly, I believe, between Shetland and Orkney against the SNP.

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
Maybe if we could abolish the HoL and replace it with a smaller but regional system based on the above ideas of devolved areas ...................................
That is a good idea. Every one of the 13 regions (including Scotland, Wales and N.I.) would have a say and be able to express their wishes and their needs. Presumably, although there is still some disparity between population numbers, each of the 13 regions would have an equal voice.
Of course, it would be a far more useful platform than the existing biased and self-interested Lords.
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03-01-2021, 05:22 PM
27

Re: Return devolved powers to Westminster

Originally Posted by Harbal ->
You make it sound like there are just two positions: right and wrong. Well I am not one of those with a flawed vision of what reality truly entails.
Can you suggest a better system than democracy, in which a majority vote carries the motion?

Anything else, in a vain attempt to take account of both sides in an argument, could only result in a continuous and probably unending discussion of the matter.
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03-01-2021, 05:46 PM
28

Re: Return devolved powers to Westminster

Originally Posted by Harbal ->
You make it sound like there are just two positions: right and wrong.
Not at all, in many cases at least.
We were however discussing votes in a referendum to determine an outcome, and here there are only two possible outcomes.
That is why there were only two questions on the voting slip.


Originally Posted by Harbal ->
Well I am not one of those with a flawed vision of what reality truly entails.
I think that by now everybody can see what a flawed vision of reality might be.
A stubborn and continued refusal to accept the decision of a majority of your peers is undoubtedly a part of that flaw.

It might help if you realised that sometimes it is better to accept defeat gracefully and with dignity, a basic tenet that most of us were educated in as young children.
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03-01-2021, 07:12 PM
29

Re: Return devolved powers to Westminster

Originally Posted by JBR ->
I agree, but I think that is inevitable. Scotland is the same and is a bigger area than any of the English regions. I'm sure there is dissention there certainly, I believe, between Shetland and Orkney against the SNP.



That is a good idea. Every one of the 13 regions (including Scotland, Wales and N.I.) would have a say and be able to express their wishes and their needs. Presumably, although there is still some disparity between population numbers, each of the 13 regions would have an equal voice.
Of course, it would be a far more useful platform than the existing biased and self-interested Lords.
Wouldn't it though; I'm sure that most people would far rather pay for representation like that than for the existing system of unelected peers, especially as we would need far less of them.

I'm sure it wouldn't take much to arrange a new system based upon the regions as suggested above AND still save a considerable sum of money compared to the HoL.
Alternatively we used to have regional MEP's voted-for in elections; why not use the same system to elect 73 regional representatives?

Now, who's going to suggest this to Boris?
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Harbal
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03-01-2021, 07:19 PM
30

Re: Return devolved powers to Westminster

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->

It might help if you realised that sometimes it is better to accept defeat gracefully and with dignity, a basic tenet that most of us were educated in as young children.
It might help even more if I cared.
 
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