29-04-2019, 09:01 PM
31
Re: Greta Thunberg
Originally Posted by AnnieS
->
Sorry but you do sound like the ultimate consumer. That all sounds wonderful but the average person on the street cannot afford to do all this. Anyway whatever people do now will generate yet more energy in changing around all the stuff we use. Leading to loads more waste. They scrap all diesel cars - more waste. After about seven years an electric car battery is no longer usable - more waste because it cannot be recycled.
At the same time the older population and the disabled rely on cars to be mobile and independent. This is all going to be an excuse for more indirect tax for those who are unable to afford it.
Yes you can get rid of gas guzzling four by fours but the real culprits are the lorries we rely on to transport goods and the buses which we should apparently be catching instead of driving our low emission vehicles. I'm sure all these speed bumps they put in cause far more pollution than driving at 30 or 40mph.
Lots of people are unhappy about the situation but few have any solutions and the ideas being bandied about may make some feel morally superior but will not in fact make much difference.
The real problems are geopolitical and relate to big issues which individuals have no control over.
This.
29-04-2019, 09:11 PM
33
Re: Greta Thunberg
Originally Posted by AnnieS
->
Sorry but you do sound like the ultimate consumer. That all sounds wonderful but the average person on the street cannot afford to do all this. Anyway whatever people do now will generate yet more energy in changing around all the stuff we use. Leading to loads more waste. They scrap all diesel cars - more waste. After about seven years an electric car battery is no longer usable - more waste because it cannot be recycled.
At the same time the older population and the disabled rely on cars to be mobile and independent. This is all going to be an excuse for more indirect tax for those who are unable to afford it.
Yes you can get rid of gas guzzling four by fours but the real culprits are the lorries we rely on to transport goods and the buses which we should apparently be catching instead of driving our low emission vehicles. I'm sure all these speed bumps they put in cause far more pollution than driving at 30 or 40mph.
Lots of people are unhappy about the situation but few have any solutions and the ideas being bandied about may make some feel morally superior but will not in fact make much difference.
The real problems are geopolitical and relate to big issues which individuals have no control over.
29-04-2019, 09:42 PM
34
Re: Greta Thunberg
If anyone is really concerned about our government reaction, this is worth watching. Takes just over an hour, if you watch it all.Claire Perry MP, "Climate Change Statement" - House of Commons - Extinction Rebellion - Apr23rd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqApa0cLIo
29-04-2019, 10:02 PM
35
Re: Greta Thunberg
Originally Posted by Puddle Duck
->
If anyone is really concerned about our government reaction, this is worth watching. Takes just over an hour, if you watch it all. Claire Perry MP, "Climate Change Statement" - House of Commons - Extinction Rebellion - Apr23rd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqApa0cLIo
29-04-2019, 10:16 PM
36
Re: Greta Thunberg
Originally Posted by AnnieS
->
It seems like a lot of patting themselves on the back and very little in terms of details of solutions going forward. We are not the problem child of the planet, but we do drive demand for stuff that is produced elsewhere. Apparently soybeans are a big environmental no- no but I wonder how many of the climate protestors are veggie or vegan.
If we had known in the 1800's what we know now, things could have been much different, but we can't turn the clock back, not with a world population that is increasing at about 85million per year.
Considering we continue to promote western technology and all the privileges we enjoy, into the most under developed countries, then even if we do our part for the climate, I can't see too many changes or improvements in so many other parts of the world for a very long time, if ever .
29-04-2019, 10:19 PM
37
Re: Greta Thunberg
Originally Posted by Puddle Duck
->
Good points and I would consider that a great many are veggie or vegan . If we had known in the 1800's what we know now, things could have been much different, but we can't turn the clock back, not with a world population that is increasing at about 85million per year.
Considering we continue to promote western technology and all the privileges we enjoy, into the most under developed countries, then even if we do our part for the climate, I can't see too many changes or improvements in so many other parts of the world for a very long time, if ever .
29-04-2019, 10:24 PM
38
Re: Greta Thunberg
I think the Thunberg girl although well meaning has been used and manipulated by some with an agenda.No doubt it would suit some to totally ruin our economy by halting all manufacturing and most of our transport while other countries forge ahead with the use of fossil fuels.
Of course we should do our best to reduce our usage of energy and resources of all kinds but our efforts are a drop in the ocean
29-04-2019, 10:31 PM
39
Re: Greta Thunberg
Originally Posted by AnnieS
->
Yes but what has the average person in the street to do with Freon and other emissions? We don't have detailed knowledge of how all the stuff we use is produced. That information is not in the public domain.
In the case of freon it has been made illegal for use in virtually all applications which is why aerosols have changed and why 'fridges not only no longer use it, nor do air conditioning units, and why both have to disposed of in a highly regulated and legalised way.
Attitudes and practices must change.
Consider what was accepted as being perfectly OK during the nineteenth century and a lot of the twentieth.
Just a few. White lead as a major component of paint yet white lead is a nasty toxin that remains in the body and results in brain damage.
DDT, used to be a very common insecticide, PCB's (Polychlorinated biphenyl) used to be very widely used as an electrical insulation but it's been found to be horrid.
Asbestos is another thing that was used in many applications from safeguarding very hot things, even domestic things such as ironing boards to decorating homes (Artex).
And a whole lot more besides.
So this generation must address our profligate waste of energy that is destroying our environment probably more than was done by things from the past that have had to be cleaned up or at least stored in a safe way.
It ain't gonna be nice but it's gotta be done.
Suck it up, there's no alternative.
29-04-2019, 10:51 PM
40
Re: Greta Thunberg
Originally Posted by The Artful Todger
->
Yes it is. In the case of freon it has been made illegal for use in virtually all applications which is why aerosols have changed and why 'fridges not only no longer use it, nor do air conditioning units, and why both have to disposed of in a highly regulated and legalised way.
Attitudes and practices must change.
Consider what was accepted as being perfectly OK during the nineteenth century and a lot of the twentieth.
Just a few. White lead as a major component of paint yet white lead is a nasty toxin that remains in the body and results in brain damage.
DDT, used to be a very common insecticide, PCB's (Polychlorinated biphenyl) used to be very widely used as an electrical insulation but it's been found to be horrid.
Asbestos is another thing that was used in many applications from safeguarding very hot things, even domestic things such as ironing boards to decorating homes (Artex).
And a whole lot more besides.
So this generation must address our profligate waste of energy that is destroying our environment probably more than was done by things from the past that have had to be cleaned up or at least stored in a safe way.
It ain't gonna be nice but it's gotta be done.
Suck it up, there's no alternative.
So it turns out that there will be a choice between humans and the planet. But the only way that there will be a solution is if the planet cooperates and every current political indicator is going against that happening.
The legislation you mention is being driven by the hugely unpopular EU. The EU also has the political clout as an entity to challenge global practices but we want to leave the EU.... so I can't see us having any major role in changing global attitudes we are a small fish on our own. Also the big demand for "stuff" is now in South East Asia.
For a long time now I have been questioning why batteries fail and laptops fall apart, mobile phones are always the latest model. It's all a big con to maintain market share and profits (for shareholders). Probably for pension funds of some here too. Innovation prevents capitalism from collapsing. It also prevents many around the globe from dying of starvation.
But the good thing about humans is that we are highly innovative when our backs are against the wall. So if push comes to shove we will find some solutions. But such change will only be after a major world conflict.
In the meantime instead of worrying about this apocalyptic scenario and pfaffing about with windmils, we should be building large numbers of nuclear power plants.
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