20-09-2019, 02:36 PM
21
Re: The Prorogation Court Case
Thought these two comments from the Sun newspaper today were an interesting take on what is going on.QUOTE
SUPREME FOLLY
Let no one pretend that this week's Supreme Court charade is some noble defence of our democracy.
It is a stunt by rich Remainers whose only concern for democracy is that it must always deliver what they want.
Failing that, their money, fancy QCs and our courts, must do so instead.
This weekend our top judges will ponder whether Boris Johnson suspended Parliament unlawfully, not to set up a new programme for Government, but to avoid scrutiny of his Brexit strategy.
But courts should have no veto over political decisions. Not unless we want to be ruled by unelected judges and unelected millionaire litigants, on top of unelected peers and unaccountable Speakers.
And if these judges do now demand Parliament's recall, what will Remainer MPs do with all their new sitting time?
They have already passed their law to ''prevent No Deal'. And they are too terrified of voters' rage to topple the Government and face an election.
What else is there? Unless they intend to go for broke and deploy their own Bercow-backed pseudo-Government to revoke Brexit entirely.
This case has been an act of stupid, reckless constitutional vandalism - undermining the PM just as progress towards a new deal IS being made, as even Jean-Claude Juncker concedes.
As for the spurious arguments against Boris, we recoil at the hypocrisy of John Major claiming that letting a PM suspend Parliament could enable future ones to axe elections or scrap the Army.
Such scaremongering fantasies didn't trouble him in 1997 when HE did it - and swerved scrutiny over a bribery scandal engulfing his MPs.
"This case is not about Brexit," claims Supreme Court president Lady Hale.
PULL THE OTHER ONE!
UNQUOTE
-------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE
DEAL BREAKERS
After 20 years of negotiation, the EU's huge trade deal with South America is vetoed by a single Austrian sub-committee.
Proving two things: That an organisation so unwieldy is virtually incapable of making trade deals and Britain will be infinitely more nimble outside it.
And that it is, sadly, delusional now to believe we could strike one with Brussels before the hated backstop kicked in.
That's why it must be killed off.
UNQUOTE
20-09-2019, 03:12 PM
22
Re: The Prorogation Court Case
Originally Posted by shropshiregirl
->
Thought these two comments from the Sun newspaper today were an interesting take on what is going on. QUOTE
SUPREME FOLLY
Let no one pretend that this week's Supreme Court charade is some noble defence of our democracy.
It is a stunt by rich Remainers whose only concern for democracy is that it must always deliver what they want.
Failing that, their money, fancy QCs and our courts, must do so instead.
This weekend our top judges will ponder whether Boris Johnson suspended Parliament unlawfully, not to set up a new programme for Government, but to avoid scrutiny of his Brexit strategy.
But courts should have no veto over political decisions. Not unless we want to be ruled by unelected judges and unelected millionaire litigants, on top of unelected peers and unaccountable Speakers.
And if these judges do now demand Parliament's recall, what will Remainer MPs do with all their new sitting time?
They have already passed their law to ''prevent No Deal'. And they are too terrified of voters' rage to topple the Government and face an election.
What else is there? Unless they intend to go for broke and deploy their own Bercow-backed pseudo-Government to revoke Brexit entirely.
This case has been an act of stupid, reckless constitutional vandalism - undermining the PM just as progress towards a new deal IS being made, as even Jean-Claude Juncker concedes.
As for the spurious arguments against Boris, we recoil at the hypocrisy of John Major claiming that letting a PM suspend Parliament could enable future ones to axe elections or scrap the Army.
Such scaremongering fantasies didn't trouble him in 1997 when HE did it - and swerved scrutiny over a bribery scandal engulfing his MPs.
"This case is not about Brexit," claims Supreme Court president Lady Hale.
PULL THE OTHER ONE!
UNQUOTE
-------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE
DEAL BREAKERS
After 20 years of negotiation, the EU's huge trade deal with South America is vetoed by a single Austrian sub-committee.
Proving two things: That an organisation so unwieldy is virtually incapable of making trade deals and Britain will be infinitely more nimble outside it.
And that it is, sadly, delusional now to believe we could strike one with Brussels before the hated backstop kicked in.
That's why it must be killed off.
UNQUOTE
Closing trade deals takes a serious approach by professionals, not politicians. The UK is training these professionals for future employment. Better late than never. Because, as you know, there are 25 deals ready to be signed post brexit, covering only 7,5% of your 2018 trade. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade...no-deal-brexit
20-09-2019, 04:18 PM
23
Re: The Prorogation Court Case
Originally Posted by Solasch
->
If prorogueing the HoC was intended at brexit, then the court case must be also. And vice versa.Closing trade deals takes a serious approach by professionals, not politicians. The UK is training these professionals for future employment. Better late than never.
The EU can't ratify any of their FTA's or complete them. Too many tin pot nations involved thats why.
21-09-2019, 12:14 PM
24
Re: The Prorogation Court Case
Originally Posted by Solasch
->
If prorogueing the HoC was intended at brexit, then the court case must be also. And vice versa.Closing trade deals takes a serious approach by professionals, not politicians. The UK is training these professionals for future employment. Better late than never. Because, as you know, there are 25 deals ready to be signed post brexit, covering only 7,5% of your 2018 trade. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade...no-deal-brexit
Parliament has been frustrating the will of the people, and we have a minority government which cannot pass laws or govern effectively.
As I have said previously, on various threads, Parliament might as well stay prorogued until the next election for all the use it is.
As for the legality of it, one court has said it is nothing to do with the courts, and another (part of a different legal system with questionable jurisdiction) has said it is. So it falls to the Supreme Court to decide.
With no written constitution in this country, anything could happen. As with all things Brexit, we are in uncharted waters
21-09-2019, 02:59 PM
25
Re: The Prorogation Court Case
Originally Posted by Patriot1967
->
Prorogation was was a political act, and frankly, who cares?Parliament has been frustrating the will of the people, and we have a minority government which cannot pass laws or govern effectively.
As I have said previously, on various threads, Parliament might as well stay prorogued until the next election for all the use it is.
As for the legality of it, one court has said it is nothing to do with the courts, and another (part of a different legal system with questionable jurisdiction) has said it is. So it falls to the Supreme Court to decide.
With no written constitution in this country, anything could happen. As with all things Brexit, we are in uncharted waters
Personally, I think the prorogation was a good move , a legal move and yes, a political move.
Prorogue again when they resit and wait it out until Oct 31st....
......I want to see the Hobbyist Lefty Middle classes getting Water Cannoned all the way down The Mall , around Trafalgar Square and along Whitehall..........
21-09-2019, 04:07 PM
26
Re: The Prorogation Court Case
Well, it looks as though No Deal is back on the cards! As usual, someone in the EU leaked contents of an EU document sent to all member states, saying that plans by the UK Government “fail to offer an acceptable alternative to the backstop plan for the Irish Border”.The UK government of course hit back stating our proposals were serious and workable, and that leaks from the EU were “par for the course”.
In my opinion, the EU are just playing their usual hardball and infantile selves, hoping that Remain MPs here will solve the problem by stopping Brexit on 31st October.
They probably don’t like the fact that there is indeed a workable solution to the backstop. They certainly don’t seem to like the fact that they could be seen to be acting grown up and negotiating for the good of both countries. That was never their plan.
I would personally tell them to take a run and jump and just walk. Stuff them!
21-09-2019, 04:42 PM
27
Re: The Prorogation Court Case
Originally Posted by shropshiregirl
->
Well, it looks as though No Deal is back on the cards! As usual, someone in the EU leaked contents of an EU document sent to all member states, saying that plans by the UK Government “fail to offer an acceptable alternative to the backstop plan for the Irish Border”.The UK government of course hit back stating our proposals were serious and workable, and that leaks from the EU were “par for the course”.
someone in brussels thought that is normal procedure in the UK, in view of recent event around yellowhammer
In my opinion, the EU are just playing their usual hardball and infantile selves, hoping that Remain MPs here will solve the problem by stopping Brexit on 31st October.
They probably don’t like the fact that there is indeed a workable solution to the backstop. They certainly don’t seem to like the fact that they could be seen to be acting grown up and negotiating for the good of both countries. That was never their plan.
I would personally tell them to take a run and jump and just walk. Stuff them!
The point is, your parliament has declared leaving without a deal unlawful, unless they actually vote for it. So, if parliament is not sitting, no deal brexit cannot happen legally. From leaver's point of view, prorogueing till october 31 would be a stupid thing to do (sorry moscow).
Boris has made it clear to the EU that may's deal will not be ratified with the backstop in it. The EU in turn stated: okay, give us equivalent alternatives we can live with, and you will/can sign may's deal.
In the EU everybody is waiting for those alternatives to be presented. Those tabled so far, fall far out of that equivalent scope.
21-09-2019, 05:02 PM
28
Re: The Prorogation Court Case
Originally Posted by Patriot1967
->
Prorogation was was a political act, and frankly, who cares?As for the legality of it, one court has said it is nothing to do with the courts, and another (part of a different legal system with questionable jurisdiction) has said it is. So it falls to the Supreme Court to decide.
With no written constitution in this country, anything could happen. As with all things Brexit, we are in uncharted waters
The pm has the legal power to prorogue parliament, but that power has it's limits. The question is: was that power intended to be used as a political instrument?
That is what the supreme court has to rule on.
The london and belfast courts thought they were not to rule on the political act of prorogation. The edinburgh court of appeal thought different, because they looked at another level. They didn't rule on whether it was a political action, but whether the law allows for prorogation as a political instrument.
The supreme court ruling will not be the end of the matter. If they find the prerogative powers of the pm include the use of prorogation for political ends, nothing changes (now).
If the court rules the pm has used his power for something not within the law, the changes in the real world will be minimal. Unless the supreme court also rules on what actions are required to rectify a then unlawful situation.
21-09-2019, 06:33 PM
29
Re: The Prorogation Court Case
Originally Posted by shropshiregirl
->
Well, it looks as though No Deal is back on the cards! As usual, someone in the EU leaked contents of an EU document sent to all member states, saying that plans by the UK Government “fail to offer an acceptable alternative to the backstop plan for the Irish Border”.The UK government of course hit back stating our proposals were serious and workable, and that leaks from the EU were “par for the course”.
In my opinion, the EU are just playing their usual hardball and infantile selves, hoping that Remain MPs here will solve the problem by stopping Brexit on 31st October.
They probably don’t like the fact that there is indeed a workable solution to the backstop. They certainly don’t seem to like the fact that they could be seen to be acting grown up and negotiating for the good of both countries. That was never their plan.
I would personally tell them to take a run and jump and just walk. Stuff them!
Whatever works for the border in Ireland would more than likely apply to Gibraltar as well.
21-09-2019, 09:24 PM
30
Re: The Prorogation Court Case
Originally Posted by Solasch
->
As far as reality is concerned, it never was of the the cards. It is set in international law that you leave on october 31 with or without a deal.The point is, your parliament has declared leaving without a deal unlawful, unless they actually vote for it. So, if parliament is not sitting, no deal brexit cannot happen legally. From leaver's point of view, prorogueing till october 31 would be a stupid thing to do (sorry moscow).
Boris has made it clear to the EU that may's deal will not be ratified with the backstop in it. The EU in turn stated: okay, give us equivalent alternatives we can live with, and you will/can sign may's deal.
In the EU everybody is waiting for those alternatives to be presented. Those tabled so far, fall far out of that equivalent scope.
If international law says we leave Solly ? Then surely the
parliament ruling must be overturned by the binternational
law??? not so?
Donkeyman!
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