Join for free
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
MKJ's Avatar
MKJ
Chatterbox
MKJ is offline
UK
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 8,320
MKJ is male  MKJ has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
26-04-2016, 03:01 PM
1

The Way Forward?

The Way Forward?

Lets face it capitalism has had its day. People are absolutely fed up with it. Corruption, ill treatment of workers, no consideration for consumers, no consideration for the welfare of animals, no consideration full stop - all can be attributed to chasing the almighty buck. Not hard to find a book where exploitation is seen on a massive scale in all it's cruel, yet fascinating beauty, with the contents becoming boldly imprinted permanently on your enlightened, troubled mind. Reading such books can leave you with a negative view of the human race. Some books describe greed in such detail you can feel ashamed to be called a human being.

Lets look at the affect of capitalism on today's wonderful market place. Who wants to be in the EU for instance with regard to some politicians? Have you seen the amount of money you can earn in a top position? Let me put it like this: the wage bill for the EU is around 8% of the EU budget - an humongous amount, and the tax you have to pay is a lot less than in this country for instance. Not only that but big business are carrying out backroom deals left right and center. No voting on these transactions - nothing to stop huge money being thrown around and all in the name of what exactly? A lot of people are lining their pockets big time. It is one big gravy train of mega proportions. But, of course, it can be justified because 'lining your pocket' is part and parcel of being successful under the capitalist umbrella.

Sod the EU, lets take a look closer to home - take BHS for example. How come this company has been allowed to go to the wall? The company was acquired for just £1 by a load of brokers and lawyers who instantly began to bleed the well established company dry. BHS pensions? Who knows where that lot went? Some £500,000,000 (5 hundred million) of it went somewhere. Do the people behind the collapse give a fig about the 11,000 works on the books? Why should we complain about their behaviour anyway after all ain't they following the precepts of capitalism - to make money any which way you can?

Never ending instances where the pursuit of money has resulted in ignoble and dishonourable behaviour from people who should know better - people who are responsible for others many the time. Therefore we need something different; a form of capitalism that benefits all rather than the one. There is a template we could use for this - one drawn up by John Lewis for example.

Originally Posted by wiki
The John Lewis Partnership is an employee-owned UK company which operates John Lewis department stores, Waitrose supermarkets and some other services. The company is owned by a trust on behalf of all its employees — known as Partners – who have a say in the running of the business and receive a share of annual profits, which is usually a significant addition to their salary.
Here we have a partnership that benefits all the workers whilst not undermining the driving force that capitalism is known for. Nothing beats capitalism for developing a backward country, or for generating new business and so on: someone, somewhere has to make money for their efforts. Therefore we do not need to make everything state owned as that just breeds worker torpor (no reason to work hard). What we should consider doing is to make concerns worker owned. This is where the future is for a thriving economy. One where people will try harder to please, work harder to help the business succeed, be wealthier (hopefully) and who knows maybe even happier.

To carry on as we are going will be our undoing. People are not stupid. They can see the uncaring attitude - how can they not see it as it is spat in their faces each and every day. They know they account for nothing in the big scheme of things. Such realisation can hurt to such an extent they want something different, some way of life where they do mean something - step in religion, and extreme beliefs. Suddenly you are no longer alone - bingo another convert.

We need to change our ideas about money making and soon.
Indigo
Senior Member
Indigo is offline
UK
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 404
Indigo is female  Indigo has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
26-04-2016, 04:33 PM
2

Re: The Way Forward?

Apart from the "capitalism has had its day" - I should cocoa - I quite agree with you MKJ.
You talk a lot of sense in this post - but don't expect the majority of "I'm alright Jack", right wing old folk on here, to agree with you.
Nom
Chatterbox
Nom is offline
Northumberland
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,118
Nom is male  Nom has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
26-04-2016, 04:38 PM
3

Re: The Way Forward?

I agree, An interview with John Timpson on his Desert Island Discs was one of the most enlightening things ive heard recently. A self effacing man who goes out of his way to help his workforce.

He empowers his employees,engages 25% of his workers from ex convicts, we need more of his kind. I feel the reverse is true.
cranberry's Avatar
cranberry
Senior Member
cranberry is offline
Notts, UK
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,742
cranberry is female  cranberry has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
26-04-2016, 04:43 PM
4

Re: The Way Forward?

Well, I'm right wing leaning and oldish but I agree with MKJ, we need to change the way things are done.
dinahsmum's Avatar
dinahsmum
Senior Member
dinahsmum is offline
SW England
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,295
dinahsmum is female  dinahsmum has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
26-04-2016, 04:46 PM
5

Re: The Way Forward?

More agreement from me.


But how will change come about? I can only think Revolution, which is a scarey proposition but maybe, just maybe, new technology can supply a blood-free solution?
Barry's Avatar
Barry
Chatterbox
Barry is offline
North Notts
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 15,676
Barry is male  Barry has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
26-04-2016, 04:54 PM
6

Re: The Way Forward?

Some rather broad statements there Mark, and painting everyone with the same brush is never pretty. You seen to confuse greed with capitalism but they are, in fact, two very different beasts

Capitalism is a necessary evil and the driving force required to re-invest in a business which allows it to grow and benefit all associated with it. Anyone in employment and receiving a wage is the beneficiary of capitalism, and the money it generates for the economy through taxes to fund all of the welfare services that we all enjoy could not be found using any other system.

Greed, on the other hand, can be found anywhere in society, from the boardroom of the largest company down to the looters in a riot.

I ran my own business for most of my working life and the benefits of my business were shared by all, profit for it's own sake was never my god nor my driving force, and I like to think that in business there are more like me than otherwise.

There are many bad apples out there yes, but it is a folly to think that you can solve all of society's problems by killing the golden goose which in fact nourishes the whole of society.
MKJ's Avatar
MKJ
Chatterbox
MKJ is offline
UK
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 8,320
MKJ is male  MKJ has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
26-04-2016, 05:18 PM
7

Re: The Way Forward?

Originally Posted by Barry ->
Some rather broad statements there Mark, and painting everyone with the same brush is never pretty. You seen to confuse greed with capitalism but they are, in fact, two very different beasts

Capitalism is a necessary evil and the driving force required to re-invest in a business which allows it to grow and benefit all associated with it. Anyone in employment and receiving a wage is the beneficiary of capitalism, and the money it generates for the economy through taxes to fund all of the welfare services that we all enjoy could not be found using any other system.

Greed, on the other hand, can be found anywhere in society, from the boardroom of the largest company down to the looters in a riot.

I ran my own business for most of my working life and the benefits of my business were shared by all, profit for it's own sake was never my god nor my driving force, and I like to think that in business there are more like me than otherwise.

There are many bad apples out there yes, but it is a folly to think that you can solve all of society's problems by killing the golden goose which in fact nourishes the whole of society.
You are so right. I was aware of many a contradiction but in amongst my ramblings there was something forming in my mind - a way to blend the opposing major political parties. As we lurch from the right to the left and vice versa with each attacking what the other has stood for - mainly capitalism and communism - allowing workers to part-own businesses would, or should, satisfy both. It doesn't answer many a problem though with regard to greedy people but empowering people might well have a knock on effect. Could be the start of something worthwhile.
eyes_of_a_painter
Senior Member
eyes_of_a_painter is offline
n
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,938
eyes_of_a_painter is male  eyes_of_a_painter has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
26-04-2016, 05:30 PM
8

Re: The Way Forward?

So whats the alternative to capitalism, socialism like in Venezuela where we now have rationing of food, Five day work week reduce to four because of no electricity. A total lack of nedicines and higiene. A control state where the leaders speak of equalty and spend most of the time ripping the country off with off shore accounts. Or how about Cuba ? Another so called Socialist country where the leaders live like kings while the people starve to death. Thats why this month alone over 5000 Cubans have left their country a top of raggedy vessels to our shore of Miami risking their lives for liberty and freedom.

A perfect system does not exist. So in the imperfection of it all I'll go with capitalism where no one controls me and I have the liberty to decide where, what and how I invest my money
Rachel's Avatar
Rachel
Chatterbox
Rachel is offline
UK
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 10,411
Rachel is female  Rachel has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
26-04-2016, 05:42 PM
9

Re: The Way Forward?

Originally Posted by eyes_of_a_painter ->

A perfect system does not exist. So in the imperfection of it all I'll go with capitalism where no one controls me and I have the liberty to decide where, what and how I invest my money

There can never be a perfect solution, at least not for long ...
IMO, greed/corruption fairly quickly overtakes any worthwhile project.

As they say 'rubbish rises to the top'.

Maybe the solution is to change the system every few years and hope to stay one step ahead.
Jem's Avatar
Jem
Chatterbox
Jem is offline
Dublin
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 17,793
Jem is male  Jem has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
26-04-2016, 08:13 PM
10

Re: The Way Forward?

Great post Mark.
 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



© Copyright 2009, Over50sForum   Contact Us | Over 50s Forum! | Archive | Privacy Statement | Terms of Use | Top

Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.