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12-08-2019, 10:56 PM
11

Re: New Government Getting Tough on Crime

Back in the 90's Blair said something similar.

We should be tough on crime and tough on the underlying causes of crime.
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12-08-2019, 10:59 PM
12

Re: New Government Getting Tough on Crime

Originally Posted by Cinderella ->
Back in the 90's Blair said something similar.
But Blair was a plonka!
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13-08-2019, 07:06 AM
13

Re: New Government Getting Tough on Crime

Hi

We have the highest Prison Population in Europe and a huge reoffending rate.

The system is not working.

We should learn from others, who have a very different approach to the UK.

Their systems work, ours do not.

This not going to be popular, but here goes.

We have far too many people in Prison.

Most are Social Inadequates and Alcohol or Drug Addicted.

No more new prisons, new compulsory Rehab Centres.

Solve the root of the problem.

Other Countries have them, high security and forced Rehab, a very strict no drugs regime and it gets them off drug dependency.

This removes a vast amount of muggings, house breaking etc to get money for drugs.

When released they have to live in controlled accommodation, subject to daily tests.
They can only move out when they have a job and been drug free.

Our current system of a short sentence and then releasing them back onto the streets simply does not produce results.

When I was working my staff used to go to Police Intelligence Briefings.

We knew when the prolific offenders, mostly drug addicts, were released and where to.

There would then be a spike in crime to feed their habit, until they where caught again, round and round in Circles.

A complete nonsense, a waste of time and money.

Putting them into Prison just allows them to come into contact with others and learn new criminal skills.

Now, our problem with drugs and smuggled mobile phones in Prison.

We stop open visiting, no physical contact between Prisoners and visitors.

It works, it does not stop everything, but it does stop the vast amount of the problem.

Minor Offences.

A Prison Sentence to some is a badge of Honour, sad but true.

On some estates you have no street cred if you have not been inside.

This is not good, there is an alternative.

Humiliate them

Any sentence of six months or less is abolished.

Community service instead.

This means orange uniforms and cleaning the streets, removing graffiti etc 8 in the morning until 5 at night, done locally to send a message to others.

This is what happens.

If they do not turn up, into Prison for the night and out working the next day in orange and their sentence is doubled.

They soon learn.

Now the real Criminals, the Dealers

Sentences to be doubled, minimum term, no chance of release.

Our present system of increasing sentences due to the proceeds of Crime is a Nonsense.

It needs to be much harsher.

I personally know one who had his sentence increased by 3 years because of hiding assets.

He thought it was a joke, staying in gives me £250k a year Tax Free.

Sod that for a game of Marbles.

The high level Criminals use mobiles to continue to run their Empires from Prison.

We have the technology to block all mobiles in Prisons, it is not that expensive, we should go for it.

As regards the really dangerous ones.

Life means life, kiddie fiddlers, rapists, terrorists, murderers get 99 years, no chance of Parole.

We are a rich, highly advanced Country, we can do this.

We are paying the Polish a Mint to keep one of our most Dangerous Terrorists.

I will not post the annual cost, because Twinks and others could have a Heart Attack.

Teresa May turned this down.

Boris is playing to the Gallery.

The problem can be resolved at 25% of the cost.
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13-08-2019, 07:38 AM
14

Re: New Government Getting Tough on Crime

Sorry Swim , but there is no chance of me having a heart attack over the cost of punishing criminals. What I would say is, keeping them in Prison for 99 years will not stop them being criminals it will just mean that the taxpayers, who work for a living, will be wasting money on board & lodgings for people, just to take revenge! If they were dead, that money could be used to help more deserving people. It makes financial sense to bring back Capital punishment, and it is very unlikely that anyone would be wrongly found guilty with today's forensic evidence!
The problem is that the British are either too soft, too religious or too afraid of making a mistake. I wonder how their children & grandchildren will feel, when they are unable to walk the streets without fear of violence or murder?
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13-08-2019, 07:50 AM
15

Re: New Government Getting Tough on Crime

Can’t we just pay some third world country to have our serious criminals.
If the prisoners knew they were going somewhere nasty like Nigeria they might think twice .

We could look on it as foreign aid.
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13-08-2019, 08:22 AM
16

Re: New Government Getting Tough on Crime

Originally Posted by Muddy ->
Can’t we just pay some third world country to have our serious criminals.
If the prisoners knew they were going somewhere nasty like Nigeria they might think twice .

We could look on it as foreign aid.
Nigeria? For a lot of the SOB's it would be going home, for a lot it would be returning to their roots to be going to "Afreeeka".
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13-08-2019, 08:51 AM
17

Re: New Government Getting Tough on Crime

Originally Posted by Twink55 ->
Sorry Swim , but there is no chance of me having a heart attack over the cost of punishing criminals. What I would say is, keeping them in Prison for 99 years will not stop them being criminals it will just mean that the taxpayers, who work for a living, will be wasting money on board & lodgings for people, just to take revenge! If they were dead, that money could be used to help more deserving people. It makes financial sense to bring back Capital punishment, and it is very unlikely that anyone would be wrongly found guilty with today's forensic evidence!
The problem is that the British are either too soft, too religious or too afraid of making a mistake. I wonder how their children & grandchildren will feel, when they are unable to walk the streets without fear of violence or murder?
Hi

We will just have to disagree on this one Twinks.

I cannot agree agree on killing Captives who are no loger a threat.

Life is fine by by me, no matter what it costs, no longer a danger and in spite of everything we do we do make mistakes, innocents killed for crimes they did not commit.

Errors in DNA Evidence , of which there are proof.

I will not kill a captive who is no further threat, we are better than that.

Not my thing at all.

I will kill those who pose a threat and I can live with that,.

I am also aware that sometimes we get it wrong with the best intentions.

We are then castigated for that, but such is life.

Without Enforcement Officers, you would be on your own and how many of you could look after yourself?

Very very few.

Stop criticising, Menendes was a mistake, an illegal who fitted the evidence.

If they had let him go and he was the wrong one, dozens would have died.

It is a no win situation.

If you want your Enforcement Officers to be 100% sure, accept the Casualties and do not whinge.
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13-08-2019, 10:57 AM
18

Re: New Government Getting Tough on Crime

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

We will just have to disagree on this one Twinks.

I cannot agree agree on killing Captives who are no loger a threat.

Life is fine by by me, no matter what it costs, no longer a danger and in spite of everything we do we do make mistakes, innocents killed for crimes they did not commit.

Errors in DNA Evidence , of which there are proof.

I will not kill a captive who is no further threat, we are better than that.

Not my thing at all.

I will kill those who pose a threat and I can live with that,.

I am also aware that sometimes we get it wrong with the best intentions.

We are then castigated for that, but such is life.

Without Enforcement Officers, you would be on your own and how many of you could look after yourself?

Very very few.

Stop criticising, Menendes was a mistake, an illegal who fitted the evidence.

If they had let him go and he was the wrong one, dozens would have died.

It is a no win situation.

If you want your Enforcement Officers to be 100% sure, accept the Casualties and do not whinge.
Surely in this day and age we can have automated prisons
Swimmy, where capital punishment is administered by a
computer, on a random system, similar to the lottery!
Visitors vetted by robots that can sniff and scan etc!
Inmates controlled by some sort of robocop who cant be
stabbed or intimidated or bribed! all controlled by an algorithm!
Regards Donkeyman!
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13-08-2019, 11:53 AM
19

Re: New Government Getting Tough on Crime

I will never go along with capital punishment.

Never.

But I do believe that treating prisoners as human beings in the case of really serious crime should end.

If by so doing it leaves them as "window lickers" and drooling idiots so much the better.

Maybe as an act of clemency leave them with the means of topping themselves whenever they want but only after a period of time so that they suffer first.
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13-08-2019, 11:53 AM
20

Re: New Government Getting Tough on Crime

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

We will just have to disagree on this one Twinks.

I cannot agree agree on killing Captives who are no loger a threat.

Life is fine by by me, no matter what it costs, no longer a danger and in spite of everything we do we do make mistakes, innocents killed for crimes they did not commit.

Errors in DNA Evidence , of which there are proof.

I will not kill a captive who is no further threat, we are better than that.

Not my thing at all.

I will kill those who pose a threat and I can live with that,
.

I am also aware that sometimes we get it wrong with the best intentions.

We are then castigated for that, but such is life.

Without Enforcement Officers, you would be on your own and how many of you could look after yourself?

Very very few.

Stop criticising, Menendes was a mistake, an illegal who fitted the evidence.

If they had let him go and he was the wrong one, dozens would have died.

It is a no win situation.

If you want your Enforcement Officers to be 100% sure, accept the Casualties and do not whinge.
There are a few points that I would like to raise Swim, so I will take the highlighted sections in turn......

1)How can we be sure that captives are no longer a threat? Lots of prisoners escape and even with excellent security it would further add to the cost of keeping them locked up till the die!

2) Killing those who pose a threat? I know the army will do that, but you have said you are not in the army, yet not told any of us just what an enforcer does for his pay. Are you authorized to carry guns and use them?

3)If we don't know what enforcers do how can we judge if we could look after ourselves as well?

4) Your point about Jean Charles de Menezes raises the question...." Why is it justified to make a mistake in killing an innocent man who had done nothing wrong, yet it isn't justified in killing a prisoner who has been found guilty in a court of law for murder. That would surely be more justified than killing somebody who has been identified wrongly!
 
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