15-08-2019, 05:01 PM
21
Re: The People Versus Parliament.
Originally Posted by gascony
->
I agree. The years of anti-EU stoking can be simply morphed into an anti-parliament and anti-establishment pitch. People will lap it up. The benchmark was set when the Mail called senior judges 'traitors'. This has the notion that if you are not with the Brexit campaign then you are not British. Many people seem to warm to that type of message. And parliament is being presented as anti-Brexit and thus anti-British. Vote against it (but for an MP, not sure how that works).Of course, like the Brexit campaign itself, there is only an 'against' message. Nothing tangible about what happens next. And that also does not seem to worry many people. Sad how easily so many pushed into a bad decision with a bit of flag waving and a bit of "them over there, they are not us so they are bad" messages.
Well, not really.
There just seems to be this weird thing with remainers wanting unelected governments and Corbyn acting like a dictator claiming that he will be the PM after a vote of no confidence.
It's all getting really silly.
Your patronising "flag waving" comments just show how out of touch remainers are with Brexit. I bet you haven't given one thought to what EU membership will look like in 5 years time have you ?
15-08-2019, 05:20 PM
22
Re: The People Versus Parliament.
Originally Posted by gascony
->
I agree. The years of anti-EU stoking can be simply morphed into an anti-parliament and anti-establishment pitch. People will lap it up. The benchmark was set when the Mail called senior judges 'traitors'. This has the notion that if you are not with the Brexit campaign then you are not British. Many people seem to warm to that type of message. And parliament is being presented as anti-Brexit and thus anti-British. Vote against it (but for an MP, not sure how that works).Of course, like the Brexit campaign itself, there is only an 'against' message. Nothing tangible about what happens next. And that also does not seem to worry many people. Sad how easily so many pushed into a bad decision with a bit of flag waving and a bit of "them over there, they are not us so they are bad" messages.
15-08-2019, 09:53 PM
24
Re: The People Versus Parliament.
Originally Posted by Last Tango
->
An excellent post, SG, which effectively sums up the situation we now find ourselves in.As someone who has respected democracy and brought my family up to use their votes, whatever their views, I despair at the way our politicians are behaving at the moment. In fact, after 50+ years of voting, it concerns me that I may never vote again.
15-08-2019, 10:19 PM
25
Re: The People Versus Parliament.
Originally Posted by Cinderella
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Cameron had no deal, the referendum vote was a vote to leave or remain, no details, no plan just a manifesto promise he had to deliver. When the clearly not expected leave result was reluctantly accepted then the sneaky, underhand tricks began. Whatever way people voted the politicians are solely responsible for this continuing cockup.
on 20 April 2004 that was the case, as the PM told Parliament it should debate the European constitutional question "in detail and decide upon it" and "then let the people have the final say".
Fast-forward to the Labour election manifesto in 2005 and the language is as forthright.
Blair promises: "We will put it [the constitution] to the British people in a referendum and campaign wholeheartedly for a Yes vote."
16-08-2019, 07:19 AM
26
Re: The People Versus Parliament.
Originally Posted by Solasch
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Wasn't brexit about regaining control for the british parliament?
Btw, great analysis of how we've got to where we are today, SG.
The people have been truly shafted by those we trusted.
LEt'S NeVer giVe Up The fiGhT!!
After Brexit we MUST fight to reform our system of democracy and representation!!
16-08-2019, 12:19 PM
27
Re: The People Versus Parliament.
Originally Posted by Moscow
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After Brexit we MUST fight to reform our system of democracy and representation!!
16-08-2019, 01:50 PM
28
Re: The People Versus Parliament.
You get on with your lives, we will get on with ours. We will again make our own laws,dispense our own justice, allow in only those of benefit to us, be a friendly neighbour, trade deals equally and fairly, with you paying for the right to fish in our waters. That is our goal, and the ball is heading straight for the net.16-08-2019, 01:55 PM
29
Re: The People Versus Parliament.
Originally Posted by shropshiregirl
->
You get on with your lives, we will get on with ours. We will again make our own laws,dispense our own justice, allow in only those of benefit to us, be a friendly neighbour, trade deals equally and fairly, with you paying for the right to fish in our waters. That is our goal, and the ball is heading straight for the net.
16-08-2019, 06:30 PM
30
Re: The People Versus Parliament.
Originally Posted by Solasch
->
Ho ho ho! We already own most of the UK fishing rights. You buy the fish we catch in your waters. That doesn't change post brexit.
Actually Solly, that bit about the fishing was rather tongue in cheek humour. Thought you may be interested in an article I found about all of this....
Another folly by our governments....
Sadly, I will agree wholeheartedly with you that problems over our fishing waters lie much nearer to home. it is a well-known fact that just five families own or control a quarter of this country’s fishing quota, a concentration that has driven smaller local fishermen out of business.
These companies hold 29 per cent of the UK’s fishing quota, Not for nothing are they known as the “Codfathers”. They also own a further 8 per cent of the national quota.
Lunar Fishing Company - owned by alexander Buchan and family.
Interfish - owned by Jan Colam and family.
Klondyke Fishing Company - owned by Robert Tait and family.
Andrew Marr International - owned by Andrew Marr and family.
JW Holdings - owned by Sir Ian Wood and family.
This sell off of British waters and turning it into a commodity by our own government was a national disgrace and it all happened 20 years ago. It was and still is known as “quota hoppers”.
20 years ago, Fishermen in Fleetwood, Lancs made headline news when they invited several dozen Spanish trawlers to join their cooperative.
This “marriage of convenience” provoked fury from other British fishermen, who stated that their anger that Fleetwood could abandon principles it had held for so many years.
The Spanish vessel owners were, and still are, known as “quota hoppers” - fishermen from other countries.
Quota hoppers have long been a source of deep resentment for British fishermen. They are held up as evidence for the widely held view that EU membership has been a raw deal for the UK fishing industry, and the origin of our decline. Their presence on the UK fishing register has been controversial from the eighties to the present day, and was one driver of the huge support for Brexit in coastal towns.
In England and Wales particularly, overseas owners have bought up vast swathes of fishing rights. An investigation last autumn found that around half of England’s quota is held on Dutch, Spanish or Icelandic-owned “FLAGSHIPS” so called because they sail under a British flag. One Dutch multinational alone controls around a quarter of English quota. By comparison, the UK’s small scale “inshore” vessels must fish from a pool of quota amounting to less than 2%, despuite making up around 79% of the UK fishing fleet.
It’s a very interesting article and can be read in full on
https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/201...t-uk-fleetwood
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