12-01-2020, 11:30 PM
31
Re: Apocalypse Cow -How meat killed the planet
Originally Posted by OldGreyFox
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Muddy, what a load of old borax. It's programmes like this that make us disbelieve all science programmes. I spend more time in the country than anywhere else, and you are hard pushed to see a herd of cows anywhere. The odd field maybe. Most of the hens I see are scratching around farmyards having a ball of a time eating anything that they can find. And did you know that there is a power station locally that runs exclusively on chicken shit, so much for the pollution and contamination.
AND! more methane is produced from rotting vegetation and is released from the melting ice in the polar regions after being trapped for thousands of years than all the humans and farm animals put together. Animals eat other animals, and so the circle of life carries on. There are enough animals on the endangered species list without adding cows hens pigs and sheep, who incidentally help to manage our green areas.
Switch off your TV and step away now........
Talking of science, if nature had intended us to be a species that lived solely on vegetables, we would have the digestive system to go with that. We have not.
Neither are we intended to live on meat alone. Look at those settlers in america a century ago. Eating complete bison herds, but still craving a loaf of bread.
We can live on both, greeneries and meat, but not on one of them alone. Our dentals, digestive system, energy consumption, are based on the intake of both sorts of nutrition.
That wouldn't cause environmental problems, but for three factors.
1. Do you remember your youth? Did you eat meat every day of the week? So reduction of meat consumption is necessary.
2. The population has increased. Those people who had no part of our way of life are claiming their share of prosperity.
3. The production of meat is inefficient. You need many kilo's of gras for a cow to convert it into meat. Production of food for cattle requires grounds to grow vegatables. Surface suitable for farming is limited.
13-01-2020, 01:03 AM
32
Re: Apocalypse Cow -How meat killed the planet
Originally Posted by Solasch
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........That wouldn't cause environmental problems, but for three factors.
1. Do you remember your youth? Did you eat meat every day of the week? So reduction of meat consumption is necessary.
2. The population has increased. Those people who had no part of our way of life are claiming their share of prosperity.
3. The production of meat is inefficient. You need many kilo's of gras for a cow to convert it into meat. Production of food for cattle requires grounds to grow vegatables. Surface suitable for farming is limited.
13-01-2020, 01:25 AM
33
Re: Apocalypse Cow -How meat killed the planet
Originally Posted by Solasch
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Talking of science, if nature had intended us to be a species that lived solely on vegetables, we would have the digestive system to go with that. We have not.Neither are we intended to live on meat alone. Look at those settlers in america a century ago. Eating complete bison herds, but still craving a loaf of bread.
We can live on both, greeneries and meat, but not on one of them alone. Our dentals, digestive system, energy consumption, are based on the intake of both sorts of nutrition.
That wouldn't cause environmental problems, but for three factors.
1. Do you remember your youth? Did you eat meat every day of the week? So reduction of meat consumption is necessary.
2. The population has increased. Those people who had no part of our way of life are claiming their share of prosperity.
3. The production of meat is inefficient. You need many kilo's of gras for a cow to convert it into meat. Production of food for cattle requires grounds to grow vegatables. Surface suitable for farming is limited.
As far as inefficiency is concerned, why would we care about that ? Cows just naturally build up meat by the consumption of grass. It's how nature designed them. The cows are doing the work for us. Efficiency ? That's a non-starter.
Lastly, what we ate in our youth should have zero impact on what we eat today. Part of my youth was spent on a farm and we DID eat beef/pork poultry every single day.
13-01-2020, 03:22 AM
34
Re: Apocalypse Cow -How meat killed the planet
Something else to consider.In order for humans to be healthy and to thrive we need to regularly consume all 20 essential amino acids. The ONLY foods which contain all 20 amino acids are: beef/pork/chicken/fish/and a wide variety of seafoods.
In human body is capable of producing 11 of those amino acids, provided we eat a tremendously wide variety of vegetables/fruits/nuts/and seeds. However, 9 of the required amino acids can not be produced by the human body and must be consumed regularly/perhaps even daily.
In addition to animal meat, dairy products are a complete source of protein. No other single food can make that claim.
The native American peoples of the high north, for example Eskimos, survived for most of the year exclusively eating animal protein ie; fish, whale blubber and meat, seal and walrus meat/fats and the occasional polar bear. During the short summer, they also had access to reindeer and rabbits. I have no doubt that during the short summer they also were able to locate and consume a few berries, but only in the summer. Those native peoples did not just survive , they thrived for 12,000 + years.
Moreover, the evolution of humans evolved their superior brains by consuming large quantities of meat protein. When we 1st stood up, that freed or hands to carry hunks of animal protein back to the small tribe. Without this consumption of meat protein, it is highly unlikely that our brains would have EVER developed into the apex predator that we ultimately become. The human brain is nourished exclusively on protein. It has been estimated by anthropologists that roughly 70-75 % of the calories and protein consumed by our ancient ancestors came from animal meat.
Lastly, think about the difference between carnivores and herbivores. Herbivores spend nearly every waking moment in search of edible vegetation. Carnivores, on the other hand, are quite content eating one huge meal of animal protein per day. The remainder of the time they spend lying about in the sun. Ancient humans used that free time to develop ever more efficient tools and hunting weapons. Once again, it was animal protein which gave us that free time.
13-01-2020, 08:35 PM
35
Re: Apocalypse Cow -How meat killed the planet
Originally Posted by bakerman
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Sorry, but I don't buy it. Solasch started out well but, Open spaces may be limited in the UK , but certainly not in the US or Canada. If fact we have so much open space that much of it is lying fallow.As far as inefficiency is concerned, why would we care about that ? Cows just naturally build up meat by the consumption of grass. It's how nature designed them. The cows are doing the work for us. Efficiency ? That's a non-starter.
Lastly, what we ate in our youth should have zero impact on what we eat today. Part of my youth was spent on a farm and we DID eat beef/pork poultry every single day.
The United States imported 3.37 billion pounds of beef in 2015.** The United States imported the most beef in 2015 from Australia followed by New Zealand and Canada.
Australia, New Zealand, Canada & Mexico accounted for 87% of U.S. beef imports in 2015.
The United States imported beef from 18 different countries in 2015.
13-01-2020, 09:04 PM
36
Re: Apocalypse Cow -How meat killed the planet
Originally Posted by bakerman
->
Something else to consider.In order for humans to be healthy and to thrive we need to regularly consume all 20 essential amino acids. The ONLY foods which contain all 20 amino acids are: beef/pork/chicken/fish/and a wide variety of seafoods.
In human body is capable of producing 11 of those amino acids, provided we eat a tremendously wide variety of vegetables/fruits/nuts/and seeds. However, 9 of the required amino acids can not be produced by the human body and must be consumed regularly/perhaps even daily.
In addition to animal meat, dairy products are a complete source of protein. No other single food can make that claim.
The native American peoples of the high north, for example Eskimos, survived for most of the year exclusively eating animal protein ie; fish, whale blubber and meat, seal and walrus meat/fats and the occasional polar bear. During the short summer, they also had access to reindeer and rabbits. I have no doubt that during the short summer they also were able to locate and consume a few berries, but only in the summer. Those native peoples did not just survive , they thrived for 12,000 + years.
Moreover, the evolution of humans evolved their superior brains by consuming large quantities of meat protein. When we 1st stood up, that freed or hands to carry hunks of animal protein back to the small tribe. Without this consumption of meat protein, it is highly unlikely that our brains would have EVER developed into the apex predator that we ultimately become. The human brain is nourished exclusively on protein. It has been estimated by anthropologists that roughly 70-75 % of the calories and protein consumed by our ancient ancestors came from animal meat.
Lastly, think about the difference between carnivores and herbivores. Herbivores spend nearly every waking moment in search of edible vegetation. Carnivores, on the other hand, are quite content eating one huge meal of animal protein per day. The remainder of the time they spend lying about in the sun. Ancient humans used that free time to develop ever more efficient tools and hunting weapons. Once again, it was animal protein which gave us that free time.
Herbivores have a long digestive system, because it takes time to break down plant cells with cellulose in it. They have molars to grind their food down.
Humans are omnivores, like pigs are. Digestive system and teeth are of an intermediate type. Humans can live on both types of food, which increases their adaptability to different environments.
13-01-2020, 09:12 PM
37
Re: Apocalypse Cow -How meat killed the planet
Originally Posted by bakerman
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Something else to consider.Lastly, think about the difference between carnivores and herbivores. Herbivores spend nearly every waking moment in search of edible vegetation. Carnivores, on the other hand, are quite content eating one huge meal of animal protein per day. The remainder of the time they spend lying about in the sun. Ancient humans used that free time to develop ever more efficient tools and hunting weapons. Once again, it was animal protein which gave us that free time.
What gave mankind the time to develop was that from hunter (carnivore) and gatherer (herbivore) we became farmers. The affluent supply of food made it possible that some of the tribes members could have time to think on other things than where to get the day's meal from.
13-01-2020, 10:58 PM
38
Re: Apocalypse Cow -How meat killed the planet
Some great posts from Solasch and Bakerman, I tend to lean on the side of Bakerman when it comes to a variable diet. I believe that no food should be out of bounds when it comes to supplying valuable vitamins, minerals and other essentials to our bodies.I worry about Vegans who deny things like eggs, cheese, fish and other seafoods, not to mention the value of any kind of meat, the human diet has been successful for thousands of years.
The world is not overpopulated! Sure, there are areas where there is a conglomeration of humans, but a greater part of the world is uninhabited.
Consider that 71% of the surface of the earth is water 27% of the land is unsuitable for human existence (Mountains, Jungle and forests) Leaving just 2% that is used for habitat and food production, how could we be overpopulated? How could we possibly have any effect on the climate when we occupy less than 2% of the surface of the world?
In the 1950's when I was a boy, putting food on the table was the most important thing most families had to worry about. Food was expensive and took a large percentage of weekly earnings. So most families in my neck of the woods either had allotments or part of their gardens set aside for growing crops to supplement their supply of good food.
These days the importance and cost of food falls a long way behind smartphones, TV's, and other entertainment items. I'm not criticising, just pointing out how our priorities have changed. Because food can be obtained cheaply and in great quantity and wages are many times higher than in the fifties, boxed sets and the internet are a lot more exciting that digging in a row of spuds, and now we can be fussy eaters.
Everything most of us know (or think we know) about the state of the world comes from the media. Not a problem in the 50's most of the news was local, and we cared about our community, not about things we have no control over. But with our insatiable appetite for information we can't get enough, not thinking for one moment that we are being manipulated and lied to. Not all of the time, but it's getting increasingly difficult to separate fact from fiction, fake news from genuine news, and it will only get worse.
13-01-2020, 11:09 PM
39
Re: Apocalypse Cow -How meat killed the planet
Originally Posted by Solasch
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Cows take hours to ruminate their food and meditating on their future on green pastures. The problem with carnivores is, that hunting with your full stomach dragging over the ground tends to give you a stomach burn (on the outside), and the prey escaping.What gave mankind the time to develop was that from hunter (carnivore) and gatherer (herbivore) we became farmers. The affluent supply of food made it possible that some of the tribes members could have time to think on other things than where to get the day's meal from.
Survival of the fittest Solasch, meant that only perfect humans would survive to produce the next generation of perfect humans. Nowadays we are producing substandard humans. Could this be natures way of culling the human race?
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