08-08-2015, 06:43 AM
21
Re: Femenism
Originally Posted by Cass
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One of the biggest lies in the 20th century was telling young women 'Żou can have it all'
No they couldnt, building a career and marriage and children and homemaking ...something has to give, someone looses out, and something suffers if not work then family and quite often the women herself trying to live up to an ideal that for the vast majority just isnt possible.
08-08-2015, 03:02 PM
22
Re: Femenism
Originally Posted by Cass
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One of the biggest lies in the 20th century was telling young women 'Żou can have it all'
No they couldnt, building a career and marriage and children and homemaking ...something has to give, someone looses out, and something suffers if not work then family and quite often the women herself trying to live up to an ideal that for the vast majority just isnt possible.
http://www.womeninworldhistory.com/lesson17.html
08-08-2015, 05:21 PM
24
Re: Femenism
Originally Posted by Julie1962
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I think a lot of choices have been taken away, ask if mums feel they really have a true choice whether to work or not ! it is getting worse too as the amount of years they have to work to get a pension rises.
Why do you think women should be able to receive their pension earlier than men and this (in the case of occupational pensions as well as the o.a.p.) is regardless of what they have put in? Women usually live longer than men and years spent not working (in an occupation) can now be offset with additional year's contributions being provided if women do not work with young children. Something I did not have the luxury of when I had my children.
You cannot pick and choose about equality and women's riights - what is right and fair also applies to men - it comes as a whole package. Once they are in a position to work after the children's needs are taken care of - I see no reason why women should not work - I don't see it as a matter of choice as to whether they want to or not. Having children doesn't entitle women to a meal ticket for life and I see no reason why a woman should receive a pension at an earlier age than a man. Everyone - regardless of their sex - is, through necessity, having to work longer to earn a pension. It's the opportunities to do it and the parity between men that is important IMO
08-08-2015, 05:37 PM
25
Re: Femenism
Originally Posted by Aerolor
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People are living longer - we can only afford to provide what we (collectively) can afford as a country - and this is why the pensionable age for both men and women is reflecting this - There surely can be no denial of the fact that pensions - o.a.p's and occupational pensions, are expensive to provide and there are less people contributing and more people in need of a pension. Many people will actually be getting more than they have actually put into the communal pot. A piece of elastic can only stretch so far and everything has to be paid for. Why do you think women should be able to receive their pension earlier than men and this (in the case of occupational pensions as well as the o.a.p.) is regardless of what they have put in? Women usually live longer than men and years spent not working (in an occupation) can now be offset with additional year's contributions being provided if women do not work with young children. Something I did not have the luxury of when I had my children.
You cannot pick and choose about equality and women's riights - what is right and fair also applies to men - it comes as a whole package. Once they are in a position to work after the children's needs are taken care of - I see no reason why women should not work - I don't see it as a matter of choice as to whether they want to or not. Having children doesn't entitle women to a meal ticket for life and I see no reason why a woman should receive a pension at an earlier age than a man. Everyone - regardless of their sex - is, through necessity, having to work longer to earn a pension. It's the opportunities to do it and the parity between men that is important IMO
And this living longer ? well some may but our average age in our two families is late 60's to die and several haven't even made it that far that is what manual work does to a body.
I am saying women but I always imagined equality would bring down men's retirement age to equal women and men would have an opportunity to stay home to look after the children too.
It's work til you drop either sex now. If we really can't afford our elderly population then set it up so we can die with dignity because I don't fancy what I do for a living or what my husband is doing into our 70's !
08-08-2015, 06:21 PM
27
Re: Femenism
Originally Posted by malcolm
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Feminism has turned me into a misoginist Women have turned into men, no make-up no dress sense, they all wear un flattering trousers, no femininity and men have become women they wear make-up, hair preparations, pluck their eyebrows etc.
I despair !
Femininity is down to much more than make-up and clothing...
08-08-2015, 06:25 PM
28
Re: Femenism
Originally Posted by malcolm
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Feminism has turned me into a misoginist Women have turned into men, no make-up no dress sense, they all wear un flattering trousers, no femininity and men have become women they wear make-up, hair preparations, pluck their eyebrows etc.
I despair !
09-08-2015, 07:25 PM
29
Re: Femenism
Originally Posted by Julie1962
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I am not talking about collecting early I am saying women used to be able to have a family and a break from work to bring them up, it's really frowned on now to do that, even if you are married and supported by your husband the first question you are asked is why are you not working as if bringing up a family is not work !And this living longer ? well some may but our average age in our two families is late 60's to die and several haven't even made it that far that is what manual work does to a body.
I am saying women but I always imagined equality would bring down men's retirement age to equal women and men would have an opportunity to stay home to look after the children too.
It's work til you drop either sex now. If we really can't afford our elderly population then set it up so we can die with dignity because I don't fancy what I do for a living or what my husband is doing into our 70's !
Choice was not taken away by feminism - there are more choices in reality and therein is sometimes where the dilemma for women lies. I am under no illusion about bringing up children - it is hard work and if anyone told me it wasn't and/or said why aren't you at work they would get short shrift from me. It's one of the hardest jobs going IMO. It is made even more complicated by the juggling women have to do when they go to work with children to care for - but I think I am happy with the fact that we have more choices and the complications working with children are worth it. I certainly do not want to go back to the years when there was little alternative and few choices for women. Not too long ago women were expected to give up any job they had when they had a child - it was not kept for them to return to - and at one time married women lost their job as the law dictated that when they married (children or not). Jobs were not held open for a return to work. Nowadays women can take a year's maternity leave (not all with pay, of course) but it is quite a valuable thing to have. Women can do so much more now (if they want to) and I am grateful for the independence it brought.
People are all different but generally people are living longer - but obviously some families are not - luck of the draw I suppose along with genetics and economic circumstances. As I said we are all different.
In an ideal world pension ages could be reduced for males and females, but again economics govern whether this is possible or not and we can only have what the country can afford and what we can achieve off our own backs as individuals in terms of financial security. It is simply not affordable for the country to do it where the o.a.p is concerned - too many o.a.p's and too little cake to go round.
Re last paragraph - it is not for me to comment on individual circumstances, although I do believe many people in work are working harder now and doing more for less. Again that cannot really be generalised and there is a wide range of circumstances.
At the end of the day we have to "afford" our elderly population and if the cake is not very big it has to be shared around in smaller pieces. We cannot decide the elderly are going to have to eliminate themselves when they reach a certain age - the thought of that sends shivers down me. As always people have to do, or try to do, what is best for them and their families and there will always be an element of good and bad fortune. I am sorry you are thinking you may have to keep on working until in your 70's. Many do it by choice and never retire, but there are a lot who just have to keep on going - again economics dictate what we can and cannot do and we all have to keep a roof over our heads and feed ourselves as best we can. I don't think feminism can be blamed for the individual circumstances people find themselves in.
Best wishes. Rena
09-08-2015, 07:31 PM
30
Re: Femenism
No you didn't upset me I just get the bit between my teeth when pensions are mentioned the myth we can't afford them has caught on far too easily. If we wanted to we could sadly the all have to provide for ourselves idea has taken hold.I paid tax happily for my grandparents and argued always I would be happy to pay more if it meant they could have more now come our time the goal posts have moved so far many people will never retire. We have had 2 deaths at work recently both men in their early 70s it's hard on their colleagues to just go to work the next day
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