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Bread
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17-01-2019, 06:29 PM
71

Re: Stockpiling

Originally Posted by TessA ->
Toilet rolls!

We get the paper to make them from the EU.

Stock up people!!!

Got loads of toilet rolls anyway. We get them bulk.
Banchory
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17-01-2019, 08:56 PM
72

Re: Stockpiling

[QUOTE=Bread;1618629]
Originally Posted by Banchory ->


Utter nonsense do you really think the UK is too stupid to negotiate tree deals? We haven't negotiated trade deals in the last 40 years because we are in the EU ... the trade deals the EU have benefit german manufacturing and French farmers.

Negotiating our own will benefit us.
No I don’t think the UK is too stupid, only that we have no skilled trade negotiators and we will not have the advantage of having the worlds largest trading bloc with 500 million consumers behind us.

Our international trade secretary the eminent Brexiteer Liam Fox said “Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history" because our rules and laws are already the same”

Our negotiators including another eminent Brexiter David Davis were then completely outclassed by Barnier and his team of seasoned negotiators

Out on our own, actually not quite alone as we’ll have Liberia for company, we have a mammoth task of negotiating 40 + trade deals just to return to the status quo. Whilst we will still be an important market for many countries we will be seen as less attractive attractive than the larger EU market which will be reflected in negotiating priority and strategy
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Bread
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17-01-2019, 09:09 PM
73

Re: Stockpiling

[QUOTE=Banchory;1618763]
Originally Posted by Bread ->

No I don’t think the UK is too stupid, only that we have no skilled trade negotiators and we will not have the advantage of having the worlds largest trading bloc with 500 million consumers behind us.

Our international trade secretary the eminent Brexiteer Liam Fox said “Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history" because our rules and laws are already the same”

Our negotiators including another eminent Brexiter David Davis were then completely outclassed by Barnier and his team of seasoned negotiators

Out on our own, actually not quite alone as we’ll have Liberia for company, we have a mammoth task of negotiating 40 + trade deals just to return to the status quo. Whilst we will still be an important market for many countries we will be seen as less attractive attractive than the larger EU market which will be reflected in negotiating priority and strategy
I've posted this before about novation arrangements. It would be very straight forward
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17-01-2019, 10:48 PM
74

Re: Stockpiling

[QUOTE=Bread;1618777]
Originally Posted by Banchory ->

I've posted this before about novation arrangements. It would be very straight forward
Ah, you’re having a Liam Fox moment

Novation is where one party transfers all of their obligations and benefits under a contract to a third party. The original party is extinguished and a new contract is created.

Whilst my field is major construction contracts and not trade agreements, as far as I am aware having skimmed through a couple, there are no provisions for notation in any of the free trade agreements

When we leave we cease to be party to any of those agreements however if there were a transition period andthe EU and the third parties were agreeable they could write the UK into the agreement although this is highly unlikely.

The reality is that the UK would probably edit or cut and paste the existing agreements in the hope the third countries would agree the same terms.
However it is likely that these countries will seek to capitise on the weaker position of the UK to secure a better deal
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18-01-2019, 01:02 AM
75

Re: Stockpiling

[QUOTE=Banchory;1618895]
Originally Posted by Bread ->

Ah, you’re having a Liam Fox moment

Novation is where one party transfers all of their obligations and benefits under a contract to a third party. The original party is extinguished and a new contract is created.

Whilst my field is major construction contracts and not trade agreements, as far as I am aware having skimmed through a couple, there are no provisions for notation in any of the free trade agreements

When we leave we cease to be party to any of those agreements however if there were a transition period andthe EU and the third parties were agreeable they could write the UK into the agreement although this is highly unlikely.

The reality is that the UK would probably edit or cut and paste the existing agreements in the hope the third countries would agree the same terms.
However it is likely that these countries will seek to capitise on the weaker position of the UK to secure a better deal
Why is the position of the UK weaker when we leave the EU?
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18-01-2019, 08:51 AM
76

Re: Stockpiling

[QUOTE=Bread;1618991]
Originally Posted by Banchory ->

Why is the position of the UK weaker when we leave the EU?


So far has failed to get agreements to replicate deals needed to replace the EU's 40 existing agreements after the UK leaves the EU

There has been an agreement with Switzerland but do far little else with non EU countries

Australia is a country that has been often cited by remainets as one of the easiest trade deals for us too agree do let’s look at that

An Australian Government report titled “Overview of Australia's trade with the United Kingdom” gives some insights into other how the UK will most likely be viewed post Brexit as demonstrated by these extracts below

“Australia’s Trade Minister has made it clear that the government’s priority is the EU Free Trade Agreement (FTA), and a recent study has shown that Australia should indeed follow this policy.”

“The UK’s current importance as Australia’s 5th largest trade partner is artificially inflated by its membership of the EU. The value of the UK as a trade partner to Australian firms is mostly as a gateway to accessing the EU common market. Post‐ Brexit, the UK’s value to Australian firms (and as a trade agreement partner) is likely to be greatly diminished.”

As I’ve said before the UK will make free trade agreements but in an increasingly protectionist world the bargaining leverage of access to 50 million people is a lot less than access to 450 million

We also have no experienced trade negotiators which is a significant disadvantage in such complex agreements

You previously stated the EU agreements favour German industry and French farmers yet you suggested that those very same agreements be novated across to an independent UK

Leavers were confident that the EU needed us more than we needed them and in the words of Boris Johnson “ we can have our cake and eat it too” this has proved to be complete nonsense and our failure of securing anything but a rudimentary deal with the EU is indicative of our negotiating inexperience and bargaining strength and the rest of the world are fully aware of this

Your claim that we will be able to make our own deals so we will be better off just does not stand up to scrutiny
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18-01-2019, 04:17 PM
77

Re: Stockpiling

[QUOTE=Banchory;1619051]
Originally Posted by Bread ->



So far has failed to get agreements to replicate deals needed to replace the EU's 40 existing agreements after the UK leaves the EU

There has been an agreement with Switzerland but do far little else with non EU countries

Australia is a country that has been often cited by remainets as one of the easiest trade deals for us too agree do let’s look at that

An Australian Government report titled “Overview of Australia's trade with the United Kingdom” gives some insights into other how the UK will most likely be viewed post Brexit as demonstrated by these extracts below

“Australia’s Trade Minister has made it clear that the government’s priority is the EU Free Trade Agreement (FTA), and a recent study has shown that Australia should indeed follow this policy.”

“The UK’s current importance as Australia’s 5th largest trade partner is artificially inflated by its membership of the EU. The value of the UK as a trade partner to Australian firms is mostly as a gateway to accessing the EU common market. Post‐ Brexit, the UK’s value to Australian firms (and as a trade agreement partner) is likely to be greatly diminished.”

As I’ve said before the UK will make free trade agreements but in an increasingly protectionist world the bargaining leverage of access to 50 million people is a lot less than access to 450 million

We also have no experienced trade negotiators which is a significant disadvantage in such complex agreements

You previously stated the EU agreements favour German industry and French farmers yet you suggested that those very same agreements be novated across to an independent UK

Leavers were confident that the EU needed us more than we needed them and in the words of Boris Johnson “ we can have our cake and eat it too” this has proved to be complete nonsense and our failure of securing anything but a rudimentary deal with the EU is indicative of our negotiating inexperience and bargaining strength and the rest of the world are fully aware of this

Your claim that we will be able to make our own deals so we will be better off just does not stand up to scrutiny

If you think that the UK which is the 5th biggest economy in the world, the world centre of finance, the country that invented just about everything is not capable of making trade arrangements with other countries, then quite frankly it laughable.

The opinion that the UK will be doomed with no trade after Brexit is simply absurd. I've told you and told you about how trade works, but you simply will not accept anything else other than the UK is stupid, we don't know what we are doing, we need Brussels to make trade deals for us because we are not good enough to do it ourselves and that the UK has nothing to offer.

I guess we agree to differ on this one...
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18-01-2019, 08:03 PM
78

Re: Stockpiling

[QUOTE=Bread;1619387]
Originally Posted by Banchory ->


If you think that the UK which is the 5th biggest economy in the world, the world centre of finance, the country that invented just about everything is not capable of making trade arrangements with other countries, then quite frankly it laughable.

The opinion that the UK will be doomed with no trade after Brexit is simply absurd. I've told you and told you about how trade works, but you simply will not accept anything else other than the UK is stupid, we don't know what we are doing, we need Brussels to make trade deals for us because we are not good enough to do it ourselves and that the UK has nothing to offer.

I guess we agree to differ on this one...
Firstly we were the fifth largest economy in the world but the Brexit vote knocked us downs to sixth and it is likely we will slip one further place in the near future. Yes we have been a nation of great inventors but our own scientific and academic
Communities are concerned that our world standing will be diminished post Brexit. One infamous inventor and arch Brexiteer has so much confidence in post Brexit UL that he has decided to locate his electric car factory in Singapore

Secondly you have a propensity to alter what I write. I did not say that the UK is not capable of making trade deals, only that we will make deals but are disadvantaged by having no skilled negotiators and that our bargaining strength on our own is not as strong as it would be ad part of a large trading bloc. The Australian Government has already come to this conclusion and has prioritised a free trade deal with the EU over one with the UK

I have never said that we would be doomed, only that the deals we make are unlikely to be as good as we had via the EU or those the EU will broker in the future
I have also never said that the UK is stupid only that we are inexperienced in making complex trade deals. I hase though stated that the two Brexiteers tasked with negotiating with the EU and smoothing the path to post Brexit deals with the rest of the world are incompetent.

Yes you have told me how you think trade works particularly with regard to the WTO and tariffs. However what you proposed would have dire consequences for our domestic industry which is why no other countries have ever done it. Similarly you are under the illusion that the EU’s free trade agreements could novated to the UK. They cannot, the best we could hope for I’d that the EaU and the third countries cold agree to include the UK into the Contract however we would be bound by the conditions. The only remaining option given we have a lack of skilled negotiators is the plagiarise the EU contract and hope to agree similar deals

We will never agree whilst what you propose is patently unworkable, incorrect or pure fantasy
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Bread
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18-01-2019, 11:42 PM
79

Re: Stockpiling

Urgh I give up.

And we are 5th in the world

https://www.investopedia.com/insight...top-economies/
 
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