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The Artful Todger
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The Artful Todger is offline
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30-11-2019, 01:47 PM
41

Re: Hillsborough finally put to bed.

Originally Posted by Cinderella ->
Hillsborough will never be put to bed, too much has been left unresolved.

Festering wounds never heal.
The ONLY thing left unresolved and unfortunately unresolvable would be the identification and prosecution of the mob leaders who are the real cause of the killing and injury that took place.
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30-11-2019, 02:52 PM
42

Re: Hillsborough finally put to bed.

An official inquiry found the main cause of the tragedy was a failure in crowd control by South Yorkshire Police.

If there was evidence that fans directly contributed to the tragedy then why unable to identify some of them.

This piece from: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17382896

The most controversial issue in the papers that the BBC has seen relates to what Mrs Thatcher was being told about the views of some senior members of the Merseyside Police Force.

'Deeply ashamed'
They are contained in a letter sent to the prime minister from a member of her policy unit in Downing Street. Four days after the disaster, the adviser attended a long planned meeting with the chief constable of Merseyside Police, the late Sir Kenneth Oxford, and some of his senior colleagues.

According to the letter, the Merseyside chief constable said: "A key factor in causing the disaster was the fact that large numbers of Liverpool fans had turned up without tickets.

"This was getting lost sight of in attempts to blame the police, the football authorities, etc."

The prime minister was informed that a senior member of the Merseyside Police directly blamed supporters: "One officer, born and bred in Liverpool, said that he was deeply ashamed to say that it was drunken Liverpool fans who had caused this disaster, just as they had caused the deaths at Heysel."

This officer is not named.
An opinion, not proven fact.
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30-11-2019, 03:23 PM
43

Re: Hillsborough finally put to bed.

Originally Posted by Cinderella ->
An official inquiry found the main cause of the tragedy was a failure in crowd control by South Yorkshire Police.

If there was evidence that fans directly contributed to the tragedy then why unable to identify some of them.

This piece from: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17382896

An opinion, not proven fact.
Never mind. It all turned out good in the end.
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30-11-2019, 03:52 PM
44

Re: Hillsborough finally put to bed.

After 30 years campaigners have been failed yet again but they won’t quit now.

“Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.”

― John Lennon
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30-11-2019, 04:07 PM
45

Re: Hillsborough finally put to bed.

Originally Posted by Cinderella ->
An official inquiry found the main cause of the tragedy was a failure in crowd control by South Yorkshire Police.

If there was evidence that fans directly contributed to the tragedy then why unable to identify some of them.

This piece from: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17382896

An opinion, not proven fact.
Do you mean to say that the police FORCED those supporters outside
the gates to push their way into the compound when the gates were
opened Cinderella?
Or do you think it is more likely the crowd were determined to make
sure they got in when the gates were opened?
Imo the officer in charge only made a wrong decision, which he
admitted at the time, but the crowd was allready formed at the
gate, he only opened it !
I agree that the police should not have tried to cover up their
mistakes, but that was done by the higher level officials not the
actual officer in charge, who had allready admitted he made a
mistake in opening the gate!
Donkeyman!
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30-11-2019, 04:27 PM
46

Re: Hillsborough finally put to bed.

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
Do you mean to say that the police FORCED those supporters outside
the gates to push their way into the compound when the gates were
opened Cinderella?
Or do you think it is more likely the crowd were determined to make
sure they got in when the gates were opened?
Imo the officer in charge only made a wrong decision, which he
admitted at the time, but the crowd was allready formed at the
gate, he only opened it !
I agree that the police should not have tried to cover up their
mistakes, but that was done by the higher level officials not the
actual officer in charge, who had allready admitted he made a
mistake in opening the gate!
Donkeyman!
But DID the police try to cover up ANYTHING?

With the total confusion that was taking place every police man would have only be able to report what he perceived and if that was presented as a series of reports WOULD have resulted in so much information, much of it being at variance with what others saw then collating reports in order to deliver a clear overall story makes perfect sense.

The blame lies 100% with the Scouse mob. They presented a totally unprecedented scene that was dealt with in what was the most sensible way. It was what the mob then did that is where the guilt lies.

To blame the police is on a par with a criminal blaming the police for not realising he had gone "on the rob" and stopping him resulting in him injured himself having done so.
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30-11-2019, 06:53 PM
47

Re: Hillsborough finally put to bed.

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
Do you mean to say that the police FORCED those supporters outside
the gates to push their way into the compound when the gates were
opened Cinderella?
Or do you think it is more likely the crowd were determined to make
sure they got in when the gates were opened?
Imo the officer in charge only made a wrong decision, which he
admitted at the time, but the crowd was allready formed at the
gate, he only opened it !
I agree that the police should not have tried to cover up their
mistakes, but that was done by the higher level officials not the
actual officer in charge, who had allready admitted he made a
mistake in opening the gate!
Donkeyman!
Police only had to substantiate the claims made about fans, they did not, ask yourself why?

Des Lyman was in the tunnel waiting to report.

I’m in the tunnel at the moment and there are people in tears here. And people who don’t understand the situation. There has been no violence as far as the Liverpool fans are concerned. They simply said they got the wrong end of the ground, that there were too many people given tickets for that end of the ground, and furthermore they say that the gates were opened, tickets were not inspected, and too many of their fans were allowed into the ground.
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30-11-2019, 07:12 PM
48

Re: Hillsborough finally put to bed.

Originally Posted by Cinderella ->
Police only had to substantiate the claims made about fans, they did not, ask yourself why?

Des Lyman was in the tunnel waiting to report.
The reason why is pretty obvious. Nearly a hundred scousers had died because the mob were bevvied up as is the custom of Liverpool football "supporters" from what I've seen even more than most other football supporters.

Why add salt to the wounds of their families to raise this at a time of mourning? But moreover what proof COULD be presented? It's hard enough to breathless a Liverpool driver let alone a rabid mob screaming for blood.

Sorry but your arguments regarding where the blame for Hillsborough lies just don't hold water.
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30-11-2019, 07:16 PM
49

Re: Hillsborough finally put to bed.

It seems that Liverpool football fans are generally disliked. If this tragedy had befallen any other supporters would this be happening.
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30-11-2019, 07:22 PM
50

Re: Hillsborough finally put to bed.

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
The reason why is pretty obvious. Nearly a hundred scousers had died because the mob were bevvied up as is the custom of Liverpool football "supporters" from what I've seen even more than most other football supporters.

Why add salt to the wounds of their families to raise this at a time of mourning? But moreover what proof COULD be presented? It's hard enough to breathless a Liverpool driver let alone a rabid mob screaming for blood.

Sorry but your arguments regarding where the blame for Hillsborough lies just don't hold water.
OK, then why overturn original inquest verdict. Concerns that they were flawed.
 
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