Re: Tragic Cruise Ship Accident: Toddler Dies

I felt much the same as you, Queenie.

It's not only the parents shock and grief, how do you think that Grandad feels knowing he has killed his own grandaughter.

Realist, you say about the cruises you have been on and the windows being dirty. Have you got cataracts, or partial vision? Have you got a health problem with affects your balance?

Of course it's an awful tragedgy, but I say don't be so quick to condemn the old man unless you know his medical history and the full facts.

Re: Tragic Cruise Ship Accident: Toddler Dies

If I were a sensible parent I would never, not once, put my 18 mth old baby in the hands of someone who has significant sight issues, or health issues that have previously caused a person to fall over or collapse etc. I might let such a person handle my child whilst I am also present but never otherwise.

The parents have failed if that is the case.

Either way the fact remains that ALL passengers, before the ship even sets sail, are instructed in important safety matters via a muster drill. It is compulsory to attend. You are instructed :

Never to sit on a ship's rail or balcony rail
Never to allow a child to do the same
Never to throw anything over the side of the ship
Even an old cigarette

and many other things besides.

This being the case the Grandfather is in grave error here. He has ignored those critical safety instructions whilst being at sea. A cruise is not the same as any other holiday. It is very different. We all have to abide by clear rules and behaviours. We are not free to do as we please. It is a ship, there are dangers, responsibilities, impacts.

Hence if an 18yr old buys an alcoholic drink for an underage brother or sister, they will find that the entire family is forcibly put off at the next port and likely banned from that cruise line going forward.

Those who have never cruised before won't appreciate the level of rigour and safety responsibility involved. This isn't like having a hotel room in Ibiza. It's a very different regime.

If people follow the safety advice and strict rules, everything tends to work and we all have a pleasant holiday. When people break those rules, disasters happen and that can impact all the other passengers. That's why this stuff is taken very seriously. There are brigs on ships to incarcerate unruly passengers until they reach the next port. There are armouries in case of serious attacks.

Yes this is a terrible tragedy, no question.

But totally avoidable. That's what the rules are for. That's what the Muster Drill is for.

The cruise line will be very concerned to ensure that it was not responsible in any way here. They will be reviewing CCTV footage to understand how the window was opened and by whom.

I would guess though that regardless of who opened it, there would be absolutely no way any young child could reach the height of that open window, it would be perfectly safe under normal conditions. Then an idiot comes along and lifts a toddler up to the height of that open window and sits her on a rail. Completely against rules. Tragic.

Re: Tragic Cruise Ship Accident: Toddler Dies

Hmmmm

Seems the family are angling to blame Royal Caribbean for having a window open . . .

Good luck with that one!

https://www.crimeonline.com/2019/07/...ragedy-lawyer/

Re: Tragic Cruise Ship Accident: Toddler Dies

I read about this on the BBC news website this morning. I have to admit though that all this talk about window being open and railings is very confusing because I've never been on a cruise ship before thus i have no idea what the section of the ship looks like that the baby fell from.

When i read 'railings' i think of the the railings that you see on the deck that stop you from falling overboard. So when i read window and railings, you can understand my confusion.

Re: Tragic Cruise Ship Accident: Toddler Dies

I share that confusion. I've done over 30 cruises and never once encountered any window that could be opened. Certainly no cabin windows can be opened. Balcony cabins of course have french doors. There are no opening windows in any bar or lounge or restaurant that I have ever seen.

So it sounds hugely odd to me personally but as I have never been on this particular ship I can't know for sure what they have.

It is extremely unlikely imo that there would be an open window. The risk of adverse weather, the window slamming shut due to ship movement etc etc would all point to standard procedures that any such windows would be kept shut and locked.

So it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Either way the grandfather is totally at fault for placing the child on a rail. They have zero come back from the cruise line on that one. It's against rules, clearly mandated. HE and nobody else put the child at serious risk. The open window is a side issue that will concern the cruise line if it is true.

Re: Tragic Cruise Ship Accident: Toddler Dies

So you keep saying.

Blaming the grandad or anyone come to that is not going to bring that poor child back, like I said earlier, if this is the fault of the grandad that man has to live with his conscience for the rest of his life that he killed his own granddaughter. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, it is worse than any jail sentence.

You know Realist, life really would be perfect if everyone could be perfect, but sometimes people do make dreadful mistakes.

You strike me as someone who has no tolerance for people with less intelligence than yourself. I bet half the people on aeroplanes and ships don't take in a lot of the safety rules. Not for one minute, second even, would that man have gone all out to kill his own grandchild and I wish you could find it in your heart to have some kind of compassion for the man. Like I say, looking for blame isn't going to bring the child back and you seem hell bent on wanting him to be responsible.

Personally I hope it comes back that the man isn't responsible, I can't bear to think of someone having to live with that guilt.

Re: Tragic Cruise Ship Accident: Toddler Dies

Hi LQ

A tiny innocent toddler with all her life ahead of her has been killed. It has to be taken seriously. The police report states the Grandfather put the toddler on a ship rail.

If Michael Jackson all those years ago had actually dropped his tiny child that he was hanging over a high balcony, would you equally have been saying "what a shame, how tragic, poor Michael he must be grief stricken"?

Most people would rightly have been extremely angry at the irresponsible action of him dangling a baby over a balcony.

This cruise ship case here wasn't a Jacko style dangling, but regardless the Grandfather hoisted the toddler up onto a rail. That's something you are told not to do. At this point in time, given the information we have, I'm simply extremely angry at the man. Many others are too across the internet.

I think more of the story will come to light in time. We will have to wait. Perhaps the entire story will change once CCTV footage is analysed.

Re: Tragic Cruise Ship Accident: Toddler Dies

As tragic as this accident is, I happen to agree with Realist.

It’s horrible needing to place blame but whoever put the child up there was grossly negligent. They thought there was glass there. Well shouldn’t a person supervising a child know for certain whether there is in fact glass there BEFOREHAND. Trying to find blame elsewhere might help relieve some of the guilt but he was responsible for a child’s safety and failed terribly.

Re: Tragic Cruise Ship Accident: Toddler Dies

This is a picture of the area from the Daily Mail




And here is a picture of the open window:




Article here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er_dailymailus


There is more on the DM page, worth a read.


As can be seen the windows slide open in that area of the ship.

Those widows are well above a window pane below them. One can see plainly that the open window poses absolutely no more danger to ANY passenger than does a regular barrier and rail on the open decks.

The danger comes from someone climbing onto a rail, or sitting on a rail or in this case hoisting a child onto a rail.

The Grandfather is totally at fault here.

The child was in absolutely no danger, she could never have gotten up to the high window of her own accord.

And the notion that the Grandfather couldn't tell the difference between an open window and a closed one is totally absurd.

Tragic and irresponsible.

The idea that the family are looking to possibly blame the cruise line is equally absurd. They are on a hiding to nothing. The grandfather is at fault.

Also notable from those pictures that you could not sit a child on that rail without her legs hanging out (if she was facing outward) in which case the excuse of not realising there was no glass is hogwash.

I remain disgusted at the total moron that hoisted her up.

Re: Tragic Cruise Ship Accident: Toddler Dies

Just read the DM article. They also have other pictures and i can see now what the 'railings' are. It is a wooden banister that goes the length of the room that people are able to lean on when looking out of the windows.

I've seen the same sort of setup at Zoo's, there is always a 'rail' or 'banister' that people can lean on to observe the animals. Many times i have seen parents lift their very young children onto the 'rail', basically 'standing' on the rail whilst the parent holds the young child by the waist.

I am wondering if this is what the grandfather did with his granddaughter but when she went to bang on the glass (as she did at her brothers hockey games), her momentum propelled her forward and the grandfather lost his grip.

Seeing the pictures taken of the area, i must admit i am a bit bemused as to that out off all the windows in that room, he goes to the only window that happens to be open and says he did not realise it was open. You would immediately feel some kind of breeze or an increase in noise levels of the goings on from outside because the open window is not acting as a barrier to the outside noise.

If what Realist says is true about the warnings given to passengers about what not to do whist on a cruise ship and no sitting on rails is one of them then window or no window, it does not matter, the Grandfather should not have been doing what he was doing and a child has paid with their life for it. Warnings are there for a reason and you ignore them at your own peril.