02-08-2012, 10:29 AM
21
Re: The class system.
Originally Posted by Jonsey
->
Manners, they say, maketh the man, now that applies in EVERY class, manner are, in my opinion a gentic thing, you are born with with average manners-- but some fortunately are gifted with being above the average, whilst others fall sadly well below the average, most of us, i would think, are fairly average.
When class is added at birth, those lesser mannered people could be regarded arrogant -- blustering --- haughty --- Lordly etc etc etc. But when born to a working class with less than good manners you are labelled as ---- ignorant ----- uneducated --- crude ---crass --gross etc etc .
But the similarity is --- both classes are the same, its just the path in later life they choose to travel that reveals all.
I do think it is possible to be "classy" whatever your station or actual defined class in life. People of average intelligence largely choose how they behave and as I said how we behave is influenced by what we are taught, how we observe others and what a person feels is appropriate or advantageous in any given situation. I also think sometimes inhibition and self restraint will govern how we will behave in certain circumstances.
02-08-2012, 11:11 AM
22
Re: The class system.
to Aerolor, and I quote >>>>>>>>>Sorry Jonesy, but what you are saying couldn't be more wrong. Manners are not as you say a genetic thing.>>> unquote.---------------------Now is that a statement ?? or an opinion ???? When I say a genetic thing I mean, no matter what, or how you are brought up I think our "nature" evolves via certain "implants" inserted in us when being formed --
A rather silly analogy would be if two of us brought similar cars, brand new, same make, one of us could have bought, for some reason, a pile of rubbish, engine goes wrong, clutch goes, paint peels etc etc etc. Whilst the other would not have a problem and that owner would always sing the virtues of that make. Both made at the same factory, bothe made with same tools, both treated EXACTLY the same, until purchased and used.
What causes that, no-one can explain --- what cause a man /woman to run rampnt with a gun killing scores of innocent people, no-one can explain --- what causes a paedophile to work his evil mind on children , no one can explain ----- that is what I mean when I say I think it is a "genetic" implant.
No amount of education ---- upbringing ---- from whatever class you are teaches you those kind of things, they are a genetic inbalance somewhere in your brain.
I quote you >>>>>>>>>>> Manners" are quite different from "class" and our "manners" are part of aquired social mores, enforced and reinforced by social pressures, taught and copied from example - nothing to do with our genetic inheritance. >>>> unquote.
Again I disagree with you,
yes of course we can all be TAUGHT what good manners are, again no class barrier, except to say your "underclass" are taught by parents from lifes rich tapestry of life, whilst those of an "upper" class are possibly taught via a nanny to begin with and then then by the private boarding school they are sent to, but there it ends, there, I would suggest is when the "genetic" bit kicks in, they will do do what THEY want to do ---end of.
No amount the effort and education put into the equasion their physcie will "over-ride it. If they are going to be a --"bad lot" --- then thats what they'll be --- be that a murderer, an ignoramus, a lout, call them what will.
Conversely though, if you have the "good" gene you will, with the help of all this "education" hopefully turn out to be an even better person than you thought you were, bit like a local lad playing footi, he's naturally good but with training becomes superb.
I quote >>>>>>>>>>> do think it is possible to be "classy" whatever your station or actual defined class in life. unquote >>>>>>>>>>>>
That to me sounds like a personal appraisal of ones self when given the opportunity to become classy, but i suspect your peers, would sneer at you and call you a "stuck up so and so" or words to that effect, snob being the nicest of them
I quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also think sometimes inhibition and self restraint will govern how we will behave in certain circumstances. >>>> unquote.
I again agree with you, but we are talking of the "normal " strain of people here. In general I think most of us would be ruled by our inhibitions and self restaint, but those that are " beyond the pale" no matter what class, would, I suspect react, if having "that gene" in them the way their "mind set" dictates, and no amount of education etc will alter that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your turn .!!!!
02-08-2012, 03:29 PM
23
Re: The class system.
Originally Posted by mazzie
->
That exactly the point I was about to make Stevmk.........people who are further up the social scale, due to their birth, their jobs or whatever are usually perfectly nice people. They don't put any importance in the fact that they're well off and own their own houses, two cars, huge wall mounted tvs, etc. They just live their lives and take people as they find them. In my experience people who look down upon council tenants and others who are not as well off as themselves are simply snobs and most of them are not much better off than I am. They've simply moved onto the next step and they think that gives them the right to look down at the ones on the lower steps. Not in my mind, it doesn't. I am what I am and I live my life how I live it. I was brought up with a sense of decency and manners and a firm grasp of right and wrong and I bow to no-one. So I don't own my house.......I've never been on a high earning scale.........I don't and never did have money to throw around but I will not be looked down upon by someone who has had the good fortune to end up in a slightly better position than me. I don't care if they own an ex-council house or a damn fine mansion............they're no better than I am.
02-08-2012, 08:31 PM
24
Re: The class system.
Sorry, Jonsey, but I strongly agree with Aerolor re the manners. Manners are taught/instilled as part of parental upbringing, and I cannot see how genetics can play a part. Unless you can come up with some scientific support of your statement re genetics and manners, I'm a doubter.
02-08-2012, 10:56 PM
27
Re: The class system.
Originally Posted by mesco m
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I too don't see how genetics play any part in manners. Manners are what we are taught as part of our upbringing.
03-08-2012, 07:38 AM
28
Re: The class system.
Class!!! there is no such thing as Class system. You are born, you die, full stop.People think there is a difference of standards between various groups of people, the rich, the poor the in betweens.
That is all just words, what you are is what you make yourself. Being honest to yourself and living within your means and to your standards is what counts to you.
If you want to believe that someone is a better class of person than you then you need to look at yourself and ask, why is that person better than me? they talk posh, they have more money, they dress more expensively, but hey, they do not have what I have, ME.
If they think they are better than me they are deluding themselves, they were born naked, so was I, they will die, so will I, so what is different about that, nothing therefore we are the same.
03-08-2012, 09:13 AM
29
Re: The class system.
Of course there is a class system. It has nothing to do with how you perceive yourself compared to the "king or queen of cloud cuckoo land."You may well be as good a person, if not better.
That will not give you any right to access the kind of privileges that they have at their disposal, nor would you be accepted into their inner circles.
They,like you and me, come into the world naked and of course they are not immortal. But in the in between stage they enjoy the wealth and status of the privileged upper classes, which we will never know.
03-08-2012, 09:16 AM
30
Re: The class system.
Originally Posted by orangutan
->
Sorry, Jonsey, but I strongly agree with Aerolor re the manners. Manners are taught/instilled as part of parental upbringing, and I cannot see how genetics can play a part. Unless you can come up with some scientific support of your statement re genetics and manners, I'm a doubter.
The same goes for arrogance and ignorance, we may all taught manners, we may be taught right from wrong, and we all know when they should be used and applied, but that "gene" says --- sod off I am what I am --- Now that can happen in ANY society/ class, its only when it "surfaces" and becomes ----- "public knowledge" --- ( which is usually when a member of the establishment or nobility is exposed via a scandal whatever ).
They may well be the most superficially well mannered /polite people in public, but that is an act, their "physcie" is that of an "arsehole".
I am no professor, nor have I ever attained any kind of educational merit, these are just the ideas and thoughts of an unenlightened male ---- so undoubtedly I am wrong, but that is what think.
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