16-11-2018, 10:24 AM
21
Re: So this is where I stand
I have to agree with Barry & Meg. This is the best deal you will get as things stand. Ok, it's not perfect, but what "divorce" ever is. Mrs May has shown tremendous guts in the face of resigning ministers, Corbyn and his goons, screaming Irish and Scots. The no deal scenario gets worse the more you think of it. As for that so polite and upstanding figure Jacob Rees Mogg, he has shown himself to be a right old nasty snake. As Barry said, lets get on with it, or else we'll be here arguing till domesday
16-11-2018, 10:29 AM
22
Re: So this is where I stand
Consider for a moment what would happen if May is ousted.Suppose, for example, JRM (or A.N.Other) became PM...what then????
Do they gather their supporters and go right back to square 1?
Imagine the reaction from Brussels!
Or do they attempt to tweak the existing agreement, something the EU giants have already said is impossible...
I honestly cannot see what the alternative is, can you?
16-11-2018, 10:38 AM
23
Re: So this is where I stand
This isn't a divorce we weren't married to them.I'm finding myself asking why she want to sign something means EU are ones calling the shots and have to be the ones allow us to leave ? what has she been threatened with or promised ?
We need to tear this up and start again with people who believe we should be leaving. EU are laughing at us openly. She's almost brought us to our knees in front of them.
Anyone listen to Ann Widdecombe interview yesterday she used a word I was shocked at but I think she might be right listening to TM on the radio today. Quizzeling I use Traitor the other day. This woman if she isn't either of them is inept and ineffective.
16-11-2018, 10:48 AM
24
Re: So this is where I stand
I think the time for all this this macho gung-ho bluff and bluster regarding telling the EU to get stuffed, walk away with no deal etc. etc. is at an end, and now is the time for some grown up pragmatism.I am a leave voter but never thought this negotiation was ever going to be easy and I realise that mistakes have been made along the way, but we are where we are and now have to make a success of what we have on the table. It is my understanding that after the transition period, which is absolutely necessary in my opinon, we will be free of many of the ties to EU governance whilst retaining most of the benefits of a mutually beneficial trading relationship, which is imperative for our major businesses
All in all then not as good as we would have wished but nowhere near as bad as it could have been. As Meg said earlier, "
I think we have to be realistic and for me accepting the deal on offer with the prospect of something better coming out of future negotiations is preferable to not leaving the EU at all ." Couldn't agree more.
16-11-2018, 10:49 AM
25
Re: So this is where I stand
Originally Posted by JBR
->
If you're correct, then we can look forward to this country effectively remaining in the EU..
if this deal doesn't go through you can 'look forward' to our staying in the EU anyway by default because 'no deal' isn't acceptable to a majority including businesses many of whom breathed a sigh of relief when May's proposal was tabled. Time is running out and even if article 50 was extended the EU are in no mood for more negotiation when they have already offered to discuss a tariff-free bespoke trade deal during the coming negotiations which will be more beneficial to us than Canada + or Norway . Don't forget the EU elections are due next year and our leaving will not be the main priority in the EU.
And for those who think we can just stop the clock and return to the EU membership we had before the referendum that may not be possible either because we will almost certainly be weakened in the eyes of the EU and could even lose of the 'privileges' we previously enjoyed like the £4 billion rebate.
Sometimes it is better to accept half a cake than no cake at all.
16-11-2018, 10:55 AM
28
Re: So this is where I stand
Originally Posted by Julie1962
->
Talking of businesses all the fear that's been heaped on them has many scared who don't even deal with imports ans exports. It's craziness to think it will affect them dramatically.
16-11-2018, 11:03 AM
30
Re: So this is where I stand
Originally Posted by Barry
->
I think the time for all this this macho gung-ho bluff and bluster regarding telling the EU to get stuffed, walk away with no deal etc. etc. is at an end, and now is the time for some grown up pragmatism. I am a leave voter but never thought this negotiation was ever going to be easy and I realise that mistakes have been made along the way, but we are where we are and now have to make a success of what we have on the table. It is my understanding that after the transition period, which is absolutely necessary in my opinon, we will be free of many of the ties to EU governance whilst retaining most of the benefits of a mutually beneficial trading relationship, which is imperative for our major businesses
All in all then not as good as we would have wished but nowhere near as bad as it could have been. As Meg said earlier, "
many mistakes have been made in the negotiations. I think before article 50 was triggered we should have had our own time limited proposal to put on the table and ask the EU to add their suggestions but we didn't and our dithering about for 2 years has given the EU the upper hand.But there is no point in looking back now at what should have happened we have to go forward with the best offer available.
I think May has been ill-advised by people like Oliver Robbins but who can say anyone else would have done any better under the circumstances gived our lack of preparation.
I actually think in many ways May as done a dam good job .
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