28-06-2021, 01:46 AM
141
Re: e-Scooters
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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Do you mean mobile phone footage by individuals?
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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HiCCTV is monitored, if at all, by civilian staff.
You need police, with powers of arrest ,to deal with crime on the ground.
28-06-2021, 02:44 AM
142
Re: e-Scooters
Originally Posted by Dextrous63
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Street lights are there predominantly because it is believed that they make people feel safer and reduce much, but not all, opportunistic crime.Police are there predominantly because it is believed that they make people feel safer and reduce much, but not all, crime and catch some of those that offend.
Since they are not 100% effective then your logic seems to suggest that we turn off all of the lights and get rid of the police entirely?
No I think street lights and police is something we need more of. Street lights as you say contribute to making people feel safer and will deter crime because people are less likely to do nasty things in bright light. But they aren't (except in the scary scenario Meg mentioned in her town) usually fitted with secret cameras.
We need more plods on the street. That definitely deters crime more than anything else. It's interesting that the police's ability to fight crime is hampered by mobile phones filming their every move! So now they too have to wear body cams - nuts!
You have misunderstood. What I am saying is that we have all this mega surveillance already in our society. We can't now get rid of all the spying we have in place but we do not want any more thank you very much. Certainly no drones or bots. In san Fran people have been vandalising bots and drones. It's not welcome and it's not wanted. They also take jobs and ruin lives. I have watched this evolving and hated every erosion of our privacy, but it's a relentless wave that is being engineered by the higher ups and big corporations.
In terms of the cost /benefit - well the marginal gains I would say go into negative when you count whether it makes any difference to crime. I don't believe it stops crime. Just provides evidence to convict people, but there is still a bottomless pit and they don't end up punished or rehabilitated. It all costs too much to rehabilitate offenders.
Somehow over the years all this infrastructure has been set up yet we have more crime than ever in some places. The costs to society of giving up freedoms and intrusion into our private lives as well as losing all the plods on the streets is devastating. You should watch lives of others if you haven't. It's a great film. Is that the sort of society we want here? No thanks.
28-06-2021, 02:54 AM
143
Re: e-Scooters
Originally Posted by Dextrous63
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Yes, there are paedo's still walking the street, but almost certainly not as many of them as there might have been had evidence not been tracked to their computers.
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It's an interesting debate whether the images make them more likely to offend or less likely to seek real subjects. These people are wired all wrong so taking away one form of stimulation won't take the thoughts away. So you can bet your bottom dollar that there are paedos out there doing their thing without computers. The biggest difference to reduction of offences has been bringing the whole subject out into the open and educating children to understand and report offences. So they are more afraid of their victims than of cameras.
28-06-2021, 07:07 AM
145
Re: e-Scooters
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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I would say that homes with a visible CCTV system are more likely to be targeted for burglary because they are advertising they have something valuable inside.
Not where I live. Our house had been broken into several times, in most cases probably by gangs of youths because they stole high-end mountain-bikes and other expensive bikes that could be sold easily. Two years ago the police finally suggested putting a sticker warning of a CCTV system on the front door without such a system being actually installed. So, there is no visible system but burglars are unmistakably informed that there is one. This sticker seems to suffice as a deterrent because there hasn't been any burglary ever since.
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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I recall in Germany on the autobahn's there used to be a minimum speed limit but no maximum. I wonder whether they have done away with that there.
28-06-2021, 10:22 AM
146
Re: e-Scooters
Originally Posted by Dextrous63
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Tempted as I am to glibly ask "what has this got to do with e-bikes", I'll refrain 
I know for a fact that some children behave better due to the presence of CCTV, partly because they've told me and partly because previous areas which later had cameras pointing at them had a significant fall in the number of miscreant behavior patterns which were not repeated elsewhere largely due to no such areas being available to them.
I also suspect that this is the case in the wider public areas, somewhat supported by the use of speed cameras, or are you suggesting that people don't check and amend their speed when they see a camera coming up? Are you also suggesting that homes with CCTV security systems are burgled in equal proportion to those that don't?
What precise liberties are removed from the innocent by the existence of surveillance systems? And are these any different from having a large police presence?
Sure, neither a well funded police service nor a surveillance system will stop all criminals. But both do and will help, otherwise what's the point of either?
From what you say, you don't think that any surveillance works to reduce or prevent crime? Is it not possible that part of the reason our prisons are full is because surveillance has helped apprehend criminals?
As for your point about police dunking biscuits watching monitors, this point has been clarified earlier by swimmy.
Finally, with reference to phones and computers being kept private...if this were to be the norm, then the likes of Gary Glitter would still be walking the streets and singing his awful songs. There was a recent TV series in which serial paedophiles were successfully hunted down (by the screen watching police officers) due to their computer activities. They, most likely, would never have been caught otherwise. That alone seems sufficient to me.
Incidentally, when I was teaching I'd very much have liked to have had CCTV in my classroom for my own protection!
Not from the kids, of course. They were only little sods. No, protection from the parents who, in some cases, were very keen on making unfounded accusations.
Of course, it was a rather yobby area.
28-06-2021, 10:55 AM
147
Re: e-Scooters
Originally Posted by AnnieS
->
No I think street lights and police is something we need more of. Street lights as you say contribute to making people feel safer and will deter crime because people are less likely to do nasty things in bright light. But they aren't (except in the scary scenario Meg mentioned in her town) usually fitted with secret cameras. We need more plods on the street. That definitely deters crime more than anything else. It's interesting that the police's ability to fight crime is hampered by mobile phones filming their every move! So now they too have to wear body cams - nuts!
You have misunderstood. What I am saying is that we have all this mega surveillance already in our society. We can't now get rid of all the spying we have in place but we do not want any more thank you very much. Certainly no drones or bots. In san Fran people have been vandalising bots and drones. It's not welcome and it's not wanted. They also take jobs and ruin lives. I have watched this evolving and hated every erosion of our privacy, but it's a relentless wave that is being engineered by the higher ups and big corporations.
In terms of the cost /benefit - well the marginal gains I would say go into negative when you count whether it makes any difference to crime. I don't believe it stops crime. Just provides evidence to convict people, but there is still a bottomless pit and they don't end up punished or rehabilitated. It all costs too much to rehabilitate offenders.
Somehow over the years all this infrastructure has been set up yet we have more crime than ever in some places. The costs to society of giving up freedoms and intrusion into our private lives as well as losing all the plods on the streets is devastating. You should watch lives of others if you haven't. It's a great film. Is that the sort of society we want here? No thanks.
Plods on the street could be a good thing, but with limited numbers having them in cars has the advantage of them being sent where they are needed very quickly. Both methods would be good if we had a sufficient number of police, of course.
I think the real reason that police now have to have body cams is the same reason as I wanted them in the classroom: to prove their/my innocence in the case of unfounded accusations.
On the contrary, I'd very much like there to be more surveillance of our streets by fixed cameras. You obviously don't like them, but I'd feel a lot safer knowing that if I were attacked it would be seen and help sent quickly.
Drones, of course, are used quite differently for tracking criminals: it is much easier to follow someone from a high vantage point than on foot. Helicopters, of course, are even better but more expensive.
Robots are still something we see on science fiction films!
I agree. Catching and charging criminals is good, but trying to get them convicted and punished is quite another matter. Expensive defence lawyers (who'll swear black is white if the money is good) ensure that some known criminals escape justice and even when they are successfully convicted our lenient judges seem to think it's nice to let them off with a light sentence. I'm fed up of hearing about 'suspended sentences' but of course the prisons are full and expensive so the government doesn't want any more, thank you.
An ideal solution would be to make our prisons more like they used to be (and still are in East Europe): feared by the criminals and not seen as a short-term holiday camp.
There is so much that can be done to reduce crime, and I have talked about such things for years now. Sadly, things go on as ever without the political will.
28-06-2021, 12:26 PM
148
Re: e-Scooters
Criminal/terrorist society is far more advanced than "legal decent honest society" and unless we catch up and overtake it we're royally screwed, in fact we're well on the way already. We must welcome every means to protect us that can be introduced.Everything.
TINA.
05-07-2021, 09:49 AM
150
Re: e-Scooters
E scooters are powered, under the law are classified as “motor vehicle” obviously require tax and insurance.People unaware that they are breaking the law as they are not allowed on roads or pavements.
Police have issued a warning over e-scooters and urge people to be clear on the law before using them.
Although e-scooters can be bought, they cannot be ridden on a UK public road, cycle lane or pavement – the only place an e-scooter can be used is on private land.11 Jun 2021
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