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04-02-2019, 01:55 PM
181

Re: Benefits of EU membership?

Originally Posted by Bread ->
Why do you have to be in the EU to be defended by NATO and the UN ? The neighbouring countries (the EU) sat there and did nothing. You reckon they are keeping the peace in Europe ?

.... not by the dysfunctional, ignorant, self serving European Union it isn't.
I was bringing you back to the point i made. You are going off on a tangent. My point was that EU members do not wage war on each other
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04-02-2019, 02:05 PM
182

Re: Benefits of EU membership?

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
I was bringing you back to the point i made. You are going off on a tangent. My point was that EU members do not wage war on each other
I'm not going off on a tangent at all. I've explained the myths around the EU member states and the EU and how inept they are when it comes to conflict and what their EU army will mean for those left in the EU.

The reason they don't wage war on each other is because of NATO - nothing to do with Brussels, the ECJ, Trade deals etc.
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04-02-2019, 02:06 PM
183

Re: Benefits of EU membership?

Originally Posted by Bread ->
Meanwhile, Germany snubs the USA and buys 100s of 40 year old, out of date Eurofighters that were designed to fight the cold war with Russia that finished 30 years ago.

It could have had F22's like the UK

It could have had F35, like the UK

..... instead its the 40 year old, obsolete, overpriced, out of date Eurofighter...
I'd like to say first that I agree with most of what you say.

However, The Typhoon (Eurofighter) is the most up-to-date front line military aircraft we have and is nowhere near 40 years old. It is certainly not old, obsolete or out-of-date. It is made in the UK, as well as other EU countries and, in fact, the RAF is its biggest user.

The F35s, of which we are only now taking delivery, is inferior to the Typhoon with regard to the air superiority role. It's only advantages are vertical take-off and supposed stealth qualities. More importantly, it is still suffering problems. In combat exercises in America, it was 'shot down' every time by much older F-16s.

As for F-22s, the UK hasn't got any. Neither has anyone else with the exception of the US Air Force!
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04-02-2019, 02:12 PM
184

Re: Benefits of EU membership?

Originally Posted by JBR ->
I'd like to say first that I agree with most of what you say.

However, The Typhoon (Eurofighter) is the most up-to-date front line military aircraft we have and is nowhere near 40 years old. It is certainly not old, obsolete or out-of-date. It is made in the UK, as well as other EU countries and, in fact, the RAF is its biggest user.

The F35s, of which we are only now taking delivery, is inferior to the Typhoon with regard to the air superiority role. It's only advantages are vertical take-off and supposed stealth qualities. More importantly, it is still suffering problems. In combat exercises in America, it was 'shot down' every time by much older F-16s.

As for F-22s, the UK hasn't got any. Neither has anyone else with the exception of the US Air Force!
The reason we don't have many US manufactured military equipment is that the EU want us buying from the EU.

We could have had the F22 but instead we had to build our own plane (Eurofighter) with Italy, France, Germany and Spain. It cost 10 times what it would have cost to buy F22 and when the Eurofighter was finally delivered to fight in the cold war it was obsolete, over budget and the cold war was over.

Another example of this pro-EU spending is why the UK army don't have any Humvees - instead we have the crappy Italian Panther that cost more to buy and is nowhere near as effective or safe as the US Humvee
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04-02-2019, 02:20 PM
185

Re: Benefits of EU membership?

Originally Posted by Bread ->
I'm not going off on a tangent at all. I've explained the myths around the EU member states and the EU and how inept they are when it comes to conflict and what their EU army will mean for those left in the EU.

The reason they don't wage war on each other is because of NATO - nothing to do with Brussels, the ECJ, Trade deals etc.
No, you're certainly not going off on a tangent. It's just that certain people feel it difficult to believe that the proposed EU Army is nothing more than a political organisation designed to keep the EU's own people under the thumb.

If America, and hopefully we, decided to pull NATO out of Europe, the remaining member countries in Europe wouldn't have a cat in hell's chance of defending themselves against Russia, should it ever decide to expand westwards.
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04-02-2019, 02:22 PM
186

Re: Benefits of EU membership?

Originally Posted by Bread ->
The reason we don't have many US manufactured military equipment is that the EU want us buying from the EU.

We could have had the F22 but instead we had to build our own plane (Eurofighter) with Italy, France, Germany and Spain. It cost 10 times what it would have cost to buy F22 and when the Eurofighter was finally delivered to fight in the cold war it was obsolete, over budget and the cold war was over.

Another example of this pro-EU spending is why the UK army don't have any Humvees - instead we have the crappy Italian Panther that cost more to buy and is nowhere near as effective or safe as the US Humvee
Again, you're right in principle, although as far as I know America have never offered the F-22 for sale to any other country.
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04-02-2019, 02:35 PM
187

Re: Benefits of EU membership?

Originally Posted by Bread ->
I'm not going off on a tangent at all. I've explained the myths around the EU member states and the EU and how inept they are when it comes to conflict and what their EU army will mean for those left in the EU.

The reason they don't wage war on each other is because of NATO - nothing to do with Brussels, the ECJ, Trade deals etc.
It's a combination of both. But in any event Yugoslavia was not in NATO.
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04-02-2019, 03:06 PM
188

Re: Benefits of EU membership?

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Again, you're right in principle, although as far as I know America have never offered the F-22 for sale to any other country.
I'm sure they would have let us buy it if we wanted it.

The new UK aircraft is worth a look, I think its called the Tempest but it's only in concept phase at the moment.

It looks amazing ... have google
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04-02-2019, 03:07 PM
189

Re: Benefits of EU membership?

Originally Posted by JBR ->
No, you're certainly not going off on a tangent. It's just that certain people feel it difficult to believe that the proposed EU Army is nothing more than a political organisation designed to keep the EU's own people under the thumb.

If America, and hopefully we, decided to pull NATO out of Europe, the remaining member countries in Europe wouldn't have a cat in hell's chance of defending themselves against Russia, should it ever decide to expand westwards.
They love wearing that EU badge thats for sure ha ha

And your spot on with your comments
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04-02-2019, 03:08 PM
190

Re: Benefits of EU membership?

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
It's a combination of both. But in any event Yugoslavia was not in NATO.
Yugoslavia is in Europe though isn't it.

So there is mass genocide in Bosnia and because Yugoslavia is not in the EU or in NATO then there's nothing much anyone can do right ?

Is this your example of the EU keeping the peace ?

But fear not - the UK intervened and sorted things out quite swiftly, without any support from the EU I may add.
 
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