12-12-2020, 04:26 PM
11
Re: Scotland and the EU
Originally Posted by Zaphod
->
Strangely enough, the Shetlands think the same about Scotland - and would rather be a Crown Dependency (like Jersey) than be ruled by the SNP.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13...nd-islands-spt
When you and your beloved SNP can answer the simple question of what currency you will use if you gain independence and can produce a viable budget for independence you might garner a bit more respect, weedeek.
As that is not possible you're not doing anything more than moaning and dreaming; it's akin to peering with your nose pressed against the shop window at that *whatever* that you can't now and will probably never be able to afford.
The funniest (or maybe the saddest) part of this is that - unless people really lack the intelligence or are indeed just trolling - these things are obvious!
That isn't insult; it is fact.
And if you disagree you will be able to answer the questions I posed first as proof, won't you?
Over to you.
https://commonweal.scot/common-weal-...ast-episode-71
This was recommended to me by Lesley Riddoch no less. This seems to be gaining ground by those who question the SNP's gradual approach. If you feel like ploughing through it and commenting constructively, fair enough. It's an on going debate as you can imagine.
12-12-2020, 04:56 PM
12
Re: Scotland and the EU
Originally Posted by weedeek
->
Currency seems to be a good sparring start. here's a link if you're interested.https://commonweal.scot/common-weal-...ast-episode-71
This was recommended to me by Lesley Riddoch no less. This seems to be gaining ground by those who question the SNP's gradual approach. If you feel like ploughing through it and commenting constructively, fair enough. It's an on going debate as you can imagine.
To become independent Scotland should have a viable proposal in place.
Now.
And still there is no official policy.
Without one what are people voting for - and you must surely realise that a large majority of Scots do not want to lose the British Pound, which is a real quandry regards independence.
Regardless, I've downloaded it to have a listen at some time but over 40 minutes isn't practical just now.
What about a firm, viable budget for an independent Scotland?
Surely you can see that without one the SNP are leaving themselves wide-open to being humiliated?
Because again there is no such thing.
Despite (again) Sturgeon's insistence that come May she'll arrange another referendum on independence, come what may.
Yeah, right.
An independence with no plan for the future?
We look forward to that with interest.
You might like to read this from The Times which is factual and honest.
You can get a free trial if you don't have access, otherwise there are other means.
"If Scots want independence, they’ll have to pay a lot for it" Is the title.
It contains such things as:
"It is Sturgeon, however, who has again exposed the Achilles heel of independence: the economics of it. Her announcement of a £500 bonus for “Scotland’s life-savers and care-givers” — NHS and care home workers — together with her plea for the UK government to waive tax on it, has once more highlighted the weakness of Scotland’s public finances. The Scottish government describes the bonus as an “investment of around £180m.
Every country is borrowing hugely this year because of the pandemic. The official forecast for the UK budget deficit for 2020-21 is £394bn, 19% of gross domestic product. However, Scotland entered this crisis with a budget deficit of 8.6% of GDP, compared with 2.5% for the UK as a whole, according to its own “Gers” (government expenditure and revenue in Scotland) exercise, published in the summer.
Scotland’s budget deficit this year is likely to be a sky-high 26% to 28% of GDP, according to David Phillips of the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS), and it will stay above 10% of GDP for years even when this crisis is over."
It goes on to explain how Scotland's defecit could in reality be even higher.
Also explained comprehensively is any notion that such a defecit could be either annulled or otherwise ignored; basically Scotland, it's yours and you are going to own it.
Which means tax rises - big tax rises.
(And here for now we will ignore the little problem that such a debt would disqualify Scotland from EU membership.)
Now regarding you podcast and "ongoing discussion", this bit might enlighten you:
"Eichengreen also lamented the lack of any plan for post-independence currency arrangements. This has become more, not less, difficult since the 2014 referendum, he pointed out. The plan suggested by some a few years ago, for a monetary union with the rest of the UK and continued use of the pound, would not work because Scotland wants to be a member of the EU. A country in a monetary union with a non-EU country cannot join the EU.
Scotland could try to start a currency from scratch, with its own central bank, but it would take time to establish the credibility of both in what Eichengreen described as a “politically charged environment”. Or, there could be continued use of sterling on a temporary basis. Either would be a staging post on the road to euro membership. None of the options is palatable, which is perhaps why we have not seen a currency plan."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...r-it-fwl0vrwjc
So I'm afraid that far from being the "good sparring start" that you thought, the reality is that Scotland has nothing planned.
Nothing.
Here we are with under 5 months until elections and there is no plan for either a proposed currency or a budget for independence.
Sturgeon is leading you like lemmings to the cliff edge.
After the fiasco of Brexit she should know better.
12-12-2020, 05:03 PM
13
Re: Scotland and the EU
Originally Posted by Zaphod
->
"An ongoing debate" doesn't quite cut it in terms of a decisive plan for the independence that's being touted by the SNP as being inevitable though.To become independent Scotland should have a viable proposal in place.
Now.
And still there is no official policy.
Without one what are people voting for - and you must surely realise that a large majority of Scots do not want to lose the British Pound, which is a real quandry regards independence.
Regardless, I've downloaded it to have a listen at some time but over 40 minutes isn't practical just now.
What about a firm, viable budget for an independent Scotland?
Surely you can see that without one the SNP are leaving themselves wide-open to being humiliated?
Because again there is no such thing.
Despite (again) Sturgeon's insistence that come May she'll arrange another referendum on independence, come what may.
Yeah, right.
An independence with no plan for the future?
We look forward to that with interest.
You might like to read this from The Times which is factual and honest.
You can get a free trial if you don't have access, otherwise there are other means.
"If Scots want independence, they’ll have to pay a lot for it" Is the title.
It contains such things as:
"It is Sturgeon, however, who has again exposed the Achilles heel of independence: the economics of it. Her announcement of a £500 bonus for “Scotland’s life-savers and care-givers” — NHS and care home workers — together with her plea for the UK government to waive tax on it, has once more highlighted the weakness of Scotland’s public finances. The Scottish government describes the bonus as an “investment of around £180m.
Every country is borrowing hugely this year because of the pandemic. The official forecast for the UK budget deficit for 2020-21 is £394bn, 19% of gross domestic product. However, Scotland entered this crisis with a budget deficit of 8.6% of GDP, compared with 2.5% for the UK as a whole, according to its own “Gers” (government expenditure and revenue in Scotland) exercise, published in the summer.
Scotland’s budget deficit this year is likely to be a sky-high 26% to 28% of GDP, according to David Phillips of the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS), and it will stay above 10% of GDP for years even when this crisis is over."
It goes on to explain how Scotland's defecit could in reality be even higher.
Also explained comprehensively is any notion that such a defecit could be either annulled or otherwise ignored; basically Scotland, it's yours and you are going to own it.
Which means tax rises - big tax rises.
(And here for now we will ignore the little problem that such a debt would disqualify Scotland from EU membership.)
Now regarding you podcast and "ongoing discussion", this bit might enlighten you:
"Eichengreen also lamented the lack of any plan for post-independence currency arrangements. This has become more, not less, difficult since the 2014 referendum, he pointed out. The plan suggested by some a few years ago, for a monetary union with the rest of the UK and continued use of the pound, would not work because Scotland wants to be a member of the EU. A country in a monetary union with a non-EU country cannot join the EU.
Scotland could try to start a currency from scratch, with its own central bank, but it would take time to establish the credibility of both in what Eichengreen described as a “politically charged environment”. Or, there could be continued use of sterling on a temporary basis. Either would be a staging post on the road to euro membership. None of the options is palatable, which is perhaps why we have not seen a currency plan."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...r-it-fwl0vrwjc
So I'm afraid that far from being the "good sparring start" that you thought, the reality is that Scotland has nothing planned.
Nothing.
Here we are with under 5 months until elections and there is no plan for either a proposed currency or a budget for independence.
Sturgeon is leading you like lemmings to the cliff edge.
After the fiasco of Brexit she should know better.
12-12-2020, 05:23 PM
14
Re: Scotland and the EU
Originally Posted by weedeek
->
Ah well, I tried. You can download a printed version.
So again: can you answer why - with 5 months before elections - Scotland's SNP has no plan for a currency and no budget proposal for the independent Scotland that they are asking Scottish people to vote for?
The SNP is asking people to make a "blind" vote and there is not a single political party in the UK other than the SNP which is doing that.
They all have a detailed manifesto except for the SNP.
ETA:
You might like to explain too just what is unreasonable about expecting something so basic from a political party which wants your vote, since it seems to cause you such offence?
12-12-2020, 07:26 PM
15
Re: Scotland and the EU
Originally Posted by Zaphod
->
You still have not answered the questions I keep asking so if you think that you are trying, it is not good enough.So again: can you answer why - with 5 months before elections - Scotland's SNP has no plan for a currency and no budget proposal for the independent Scotland that they are asking Scottish people to vote for?
The SNP is asking people to make a "blind" vote and there is not a single political party in the UK other than the SNP which is doing that.
They all have a detailed manifesto except for the SNP.
ETA:
You might like to explain too just what is unreasonable about expecting something so basic from a political party which wants your vote, since it seems to cause you such offence?
12-12-2020, 07:36 PM
16
Re: Scotland and the EU
Originally Posted by weedeek
->
Really! Can send you one if you wish. I’m not offended, we just appear to have “ a failure in statecraft”, now where have I heard that before.
Can you not for once stop trying to distract and answer the questions that were asked of you?
https://scottishlabour.org.uk/where-we-stand/manifesto/
https://www.scottishconservatives.co...cy/manifestos/
https://www.libdems.org.uk/plan
Now come on; instead of evasion show the SNP's manifesto - with their plan for a currency and for a budget under independence since that is what they say you are voting for.
And again: you might like to explain too just what is unreasonable about expecting something so basic from a political party which wants your vote, since it seems to cause you such offence?
Until you can provide these answers you are not having a reasonable discourse, so let's have less evasion and answer the questions please.
12-12-2020, 10:10 PM
17
Re: Scotland and the EU
Originally Posted by Zaphod
->
You might like to read this from The Times which is factual and honest.You can get a free trial if you don't have access, otherwise there are other means.
Tell me another means of accessing it, please!
Originally Posted by Zaphod
->
Or, there could be continued use of sterling on a temporary basis. Either would be a staging post on the road to euro membership. None of the options is palatable, which is perhaps why we have not seen a currency plan."
13-12-2020, 12:05 AM
18
Re: Scotland and the EU
Originally Posted by Zaphod
->
Two hours of giving it thought and that's it?Can you not for once stop trying to distract and answer the questions that were asked of you?
https://scottishlabour.org.uk/where-we-stand/manifesto/
https://www.scottishconservatives.co...cy/manifestos/
https://www.libdems.org.uk/plan
Now come on; instead of evasion show the SNP's manifesto - with their plan for a currency and for a budget under independence since that is what they say you are voting for.
And again: you might like to explain too just what is unreasonable about expecting something so basic from a political party which wants your vote, since it seems to cause you such offence?
Until you can provide these answers you are not having a reasonable discourse, so let's have less evasion and answer the questions please.
You seem to have missed the SNP manifesto for some reason, you seem to be nifty with Google, just try Stronger for Scotland 2019 and you’ll find it, it’s not difficult. While your at it -
www.sustainablegrowthcommission.scot will point you to SNP party thinking.
www.commonweal.scot will give you some alternative views.
Spent many a happy hour pouring over these with fellow “yessers”. I can “cut and paste” with the best, but there are indexes and menus enough to keep you amused.
It really doesn’t matter how I answer your “questions” tbh, it will be the same old same old no doubt. . You seem to like the last word, so here’s your chance. I’ll peruse your “considered response” at my leisure. Have a merry Covid free Xmas.
13-12-2020, 12:11 AM
19
Re: Scotland and the EU
Originally Posted by weedeek
->
I’ve got more to do with my life than hanging around and dodging bullets on here tbh, two hours is pretty quick for me.You seem to have missed the SNP manifesto for some reason, you seem to be nifty with Google, just try Stronger for Scotland 2019 and you’ll find it, it’s not difficult. While your at it -
www.sustainablegrowthcommission.scot will point you to SNP party thinking.
www.commonweal.scot will give you some alternative views.
Spent many a happy hour pouring over these with fellow “yessers”. I can “cut and paste” with the best, but there are indexes and menus enough to keep you amused.
It really doesn’t matter how I answer your “questions” tbh, it will be the same old same old no doubt. . You seem to like the last word, so here’s your chance. I’ll peruse your “considered response” at my leisure. Have a merry Covid free Xmas.
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