16-11-2019, 09:29 PM
91
Re: 11th November
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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Out of the frying pan into the fire Realist. You will never have what you think you can get by leaving the EU. You should know by now that things don't work that way. Humans are extremely adaptable. Those in power will be the same whichever way you cut it. It has always been this way.
In the final analysis there is a game of numbers involved. The few might have all the military and wealth in the world but the many will still outnumber them on a colossal scale. Without the many, even the few will suffer for who will do all the work?
The finely kept balance which is engineered by careful media management and social conditioning is a precarious thing. Tip it over the edge and suddenly the world is like an angry bee hive suddenly burst open.
Your oath sworn allegiances may well be misplaced, themselves the result of clever conditioning and hoodwinking by the shadowy collective. Tyrants can only rule in the end, by either duping or forcibly coercing their followers to do their bidding.
16-11-2019, 10:04 PM
93
Re: 11th November
Originally Posted by Realist
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As I said before, this kind of oppression only appears when democracy itself is threatened and removed from the people.Tyrants cannot survive and prosper when there is democracy for in a democracy they are accountable to the people and if they fail the people choose someone else.
Thus we need only look around us now and ask ourselves what is actually happening?
Is democracy being threatened ? Yes absolutely
How is it manifested?? By a corrupt Establishment refusing to enact a democratic referendum result and pushing us ever further into a regime which itself does not operate democracy.
The EU is a dictatorship plain and simple.
Nobody gets to vote for the leaders.
The European Parliament is just a toothless tiger that has no power to do anything. Thus the voting system for the various European Level Parties is just a sham paying nothing but lip service to the idea of democracy and there to create the illusion of it.
The unelected EC is the body that makes changes, makes the rules, calls the shots. It can not be opposed or removed. It is a law unto itself comprised of dictators who will not expose themselves to the rigors of a democratic election.
The various EU Treaties which are used to shackle EU members states clearly that they may not oppose the EU or its aims and agendas and that if they do the EU can use whatever force is required. Those are the tenets of a police state, an Orwellian nightmare.
We can wax lyrical all we like about aspects of the EU but the fundamental and most core basic issue of freedom remains that the people MUST have a democracy and that leaders are accountable to the people.
The EU does not support this. It seeks to remove democracy and operate without it. Thereby we can determine its true intentions.
We need to be out of it as soon as humanly possible and we should never ever have been in it in the first place.
I completely agree. We should never have been in it.
The problem arose because the take-over began very cleverly and surreptitiously. It began, of course, with a free-trade organisation, the EEC. This in itself was a good idea. It encouraged trade between member nations with mutual benefits.
Unfortunately, as we all know, the EEC morphed slowly but surely into the EU; politics and laws taking over from trade.
Unforgivably, this was done with the full agreement and assistance of our own politicians, no doubt for their own personal benefit.
When the EU implodes, is it possible to reinstate a European free-trade organisation?
If so, can we guarantee that it will not again morph into a dictatorship?
16-11-2019, 10:25 PM
95
Re: 11th November
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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It is indeed like a beehive Realist. But if you upset the balance of a beehive the whole colony dies. Life has never been fair. Whatever fair means. But we have had more fairness in the last hundred years than at any other time in history.
I see the symbology was not lost on you
I have no doubt that every well intentioned group or movement has believed that in some way it has delivered good and it better than any alternative that might otherwise have been.
At the same time every just group or leader simply imposed their views and way of living on everyone else. Their doctrines, their beliefs, their culture. However well intentioned the fact remains that they are all the same. They all wish to affect the lives of others for their own ends rather than just let people be.
The "beehive" is nothing but a vast collective of mostly workers who have been well conditioned and hoodwinked and who believe they are doing the right thing and that the collective they are part of is uber benevolent and trustworthy.
Nevertheless they still place themselves "above" everyone else, deem the uninitiated just unwashed cowans whom it is acceptable to exploit for their own ends.
Anyway you wrap it up in ribbons it always amounts to the same thing. Once group of fickle humans operating in concert to exploit the lives of others. At the heart of it is always greed and wealth and the corruption of power in the higher ranks.
Humanity will never advance in this way. Humanity will never advance while ever one set of people think themselves somehow better or more worthy than others. We are all the same.
What we have is a collective who have very key information which is being kept from the rest of the world. Those secrets need to come out and be shared freely and openly.
Greed and avarice prevent it.
In the end individuals either realise what they have become a part of or are irrevocably lost to the conditioning.
When a bee realises the truth, it sets itself free and leaves the beehive.
hence the expression,
Seeing is Believing
or more accurately
See-ing is Bee-Leaving
16-11-2019, 10:25 PM
96
Re: 11th November
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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Well the trouble is that we are in it and that is what causes all the complications. If we wanted to leave then that should have happened around the time of Maastricht. Not now.
I still have hopes that we can leave. I hope for one of two things.
Possibly, that Boris may still keep to his word and, having gained a working majority in Parliament, will alter the 'deal' he has agreed to push for a full Brexit without any compromises.
Alternatively, if the Brexit debacle continues for even longer, public dissatisfaction will increase and force our leaders to respect our decision. This, I think, is probably the more likely scenario.
16-11-2019, 10:32 PM
97
Re: 11th November
Originally Posted by JBR
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I still have hopes that we can leave. I hope for one of two things.
Even with PM after PM talking the talk and yet still serving the agendas of the EU, you fall for the rhetoric of the next incoming Establishment Party stooge.
Wake up man !
Heath lied to the people and served the EU
Thatcher served the EU
Major served the EU
BLiar served the EU
Brown served the EU
Cameron served the EU
May served the EU
Now Boris is serving the EU and you are falling for it !
What does it take?
We are being denied BrExit plain and simple
Boris is giving us a fake deal that keeps us in the EU
The election has been rigged to give him the majority to do so. I guarantee that some Remainers will vote for Boris because of that.
There's nothing we can do
16-11-2019, 10:47 PM
98
Re: 11th November
Originally Posted by JBR
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Defeatist attitude.I still have hopes that we can leave. I hope for one of two things.
Possibly, that Boris may still keep to his word and, having gained a working majority in Parliament, will alter the 'deal' he has agreed to push for a full Brexit without any compromises.
Alternatively, if the Brexit debacle continues for even longer, public dissatisfaction will increase and force our leaders to respect our decision. This, I think, is probably the more likely scenario.
16-11-2019, 11:08 PM
99
Re: 11th November
Originally Posted by Realist
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You're too naïve JBR, sorry to say.Even with PM after PM talking the talk and yet still serving the agendas of the EU, you fall for the rhetoric of the next incoming Establishment Party stooge.
Wake up man !
Heath lied to the people and served the EU
Thatcher served the EU
Major served the EU
BLiar served the EU
Brown served the EU
Cameron served the EU
May served the EU
Now Boris is serving the EU and you are falling for it !
What does it take?
We are being denied BrExit plain and simple
Boris is giving us a fake deal that keeps us in the EU
The election has been rigged to give him the majority to do so. I guarantee that some Remainers will vote for Boris because of that.
There's nothing we can do
16-11-2019, 11:12 PM
100
Re: 11th November
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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A common currency makes so much sense. But not under the conditions imposed by the EU and the timing etc. which were short sighed and short termist. but you save a vast amount in FX costs in which there is an industry. It's extremely inefficient to have all these currencies. I believe currencies are still linked to the dollar in some way and that must include the Euro. But honestly the way we do things is so fragmented that we will never fix all the problems. Like I've said before that's my problem with Brexit. I know the EU is imperfect but leaving is just years of chaos whichever way you do it you have shambles. I can't see any way you can avoid it. It's not what happens overnight from a big bang it's the long term effects. Economic systems need stability, certainty and balance to thrive.
The euro is a disaster.
There is no reason whatsoever for a common currency if you have stable economies
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