03-04-2014, 06:51 AM
31
Re: Who Is Nigel Farage
I have always had this sneaking suspicion that being a member of the EU is overall a good thing. It seems to me that being a member has increased our government's accountability to people more than ever e.g the Court of Human Rights.I don't claim to understand the EU but I do know not being part of such a huge united states of Europe sat right on our doorstep is pretty scary. I'd rather be in than out.
When I read Nigel Farage's "issues" that Pats has posted it just increases my complete mistrust of the man - the simplistic and largely untenable issues appeal to the average prejudiced and largely politically unaware man or woman. He wants to turn over everything that the panels of Europe currently protect us from.
I'm committed now to learning more about the EU.
Originally Posted by manasota
->
However, in answer to your first question I would say that most people do have good reason to be anti European for the myriad of reasons cited by Nigel Farage, such as an ever burgeoning expensive bureaucracy, unaccountable unelected bureaucrats, excessive fraud and yes, uncontrollable immigration, which are but a few of the many of what I would say are reasonable matters for reticence. 
Secondly I would say that Farage is at least a Conservative by nature which I couldn't say about Cameron, who I doubt has any intention of leaving Europe because like most politicians he sees that as his future gravy train when his present one runs dry.
Thirdly I would ask you what paper you read or what news programme do you watch that doesn't have bias, and why therefore single out the Daily Mail amongst the dailies?
Regarding your final paragraph may I say that we all probably have much in common with the common working man in most countries, but I'm afraid politicians don't fit into that category, they just see their populace as cannon fodder and the greater good is usually just their greater good and not ours.
Or am I being rather cynical.....
everyone is 'cynical' about politicians but WE all elect them, and WE all have the right to stand. But the biggest moaners would never do it themselves. And despite expenses scandals and the like, many - if not most - elected politicians (local as well as national) are just people like us trying to do their best for very little thanks and a lot of abuse. What are the alternatives? A dictatorship?
I read (online) most newspapers, plus various blogs, and the BBC. The Daily Mail I find particularly loathsome as they peddle and promote bigotry . And I never forget they were traitors who supported Hitler.
Agree Farage IS a Tory - but people are saying he is something different. He isn't - he's like a throwback to buffoons like Gerald Nabarro with a ladleful of populism thrown on top - the ubiquitous pint and fag does NOT make him 'one of us'
Finally, every organisation has a bureaucracy - its what makes them work. As far as I'm aware, the Euro version is relatively small. Unelected bureaucrats are everywhere - but that's why we have a democratically elected legislature, and a council of ministers - who actually DO make the decisions. The much maligned bureaucrat carries out those decisions. Fraud is everywhere and must always be rooted out - but its not peculiar to the EU; expenses fiddles are just one of many here, the LIBOR scandal another. As for immigration - I don't know what the right solution is here, but I do know its not a simple black and white issue (pun intended
)Just seen Farage 'debate' with Clegg tonight - would you honestly let this clown anywhere near the levers of power? Clegg was pitiful as usual of course. Both third rate in their ways.
Personally I always prefer idealism to cynicism
[/QUOTE]
03-04-2014, 08:44 AM
32
Re: Who Is Nigel Farage
ctually, the European Court of Human Rights is entirely separate from the EU, and is something we were signed up to long before. But in so many other aspects of our lives, being a European member has - for me anyway - been very positive. I agree we all need to find out more about what the EU is about because the likes of Farage get away with so many false but unchallenged statements about it. But when you do find out the facts, it makes you very angry with the lies and distortions that they have got away with for so long.03-04-2014, 08:58 AM
33
Re: Who Is Nigel Farage
Originally Posted by manasota
->
My first reply on here. It never ceases to amaze me how virulently anti-European so many people in this country are without having any genuine reason other than nonsense like they're going to outlaw the British sausage and suchlike. Specifically on Farage, just remember this guy is to all intents and purposes, a Conservative with identical policies on just about everything, and the three things he's most associated with - withdrawal from the EU, immigration, and protecting the pound - are core to Conservative philosophy. So how is he or his party any different? How many anti-Europeans actually experience anything negative that can be directly attributable to our membership? Other than whatever lies are served up in the Daily Mail etc?
All I know is that I have far more in common with the ordinary German/Spaniard/Italian/Pole than I ever could have with the likes of Farage.
Originally Posted by manasota
->
Thanks for the welcome!Well, one example of what we get is the huge amount of European investment back, particularly in poorer areas such as where I live - South Yorkshire.
If you mean the European Parliament building, well democracy costs money. The fact we sit in a parliament alongside 28 other countries making decisions about our continent's future is far more important than being a 'Little England' sniping from the edges. In a world of super powers and power blocks, what alternative is there if you want us to keep relevant.
The most obvious benefit to us is freedom to travel, live, work, study and retire anywhere in the EU (this also applies to other EEA states). Roughly 1.6 million Brits live in the EU outside the UK. After living in another EU country for five years you have the same rights as its own citizens. But other ones that I appreciate include:
EU citizens have a vote in local and European Parliament elections wherever they live in the EU
Working abroad is easy through mutual recognition of qualifications, enabling us to work in another EU country without having to sit further examinations.
Travelling and working abroad in the EU is easier by introduction of the European driving licence, with standard driving tests and minimum standards of fitness to drive. This improved road safety and made it easier to cross international borders.
Phones - national monopolies were abolished for fixed line services, leading to a fall in the price of phone calls, and more choice of equipment and providers. Since 2000, the cost of a 10-minute call has fallen by an average of 74 per cent in the EU.
That's just a few that spring to mind.
It depends where you sit in the economy down at the end I work in jobs have been affected badly they prefer to take on young eastern European people than us older workers so we are struggling to find work. It's great for anyone higher up the ladder as they can get staff easily for very little money as the people coming here happily work for less than we can.
Personally I want to deal with and trade with the entire world I don't want to become part of a protectionist racket or the 30th state of Europe !
We have a fantastic commonwealth and almost the entire world want to trade with us so why get tied down to agreements that don't encourage that arrangement.
We don't need to pay to belong to a club we can freely trade with anyone.
And do we need protection from our own government ? shocking to think anyone would believe that, without interference our government might just step up to the post.
03-04-2014, 09:41 AM
34
Re: Who Is Nigel Farage
I think one of the biggest resentments that I have about the current EU set up is that we have been brought here by stealth and not by choice. It is hard to deny that this is not what we voted for and by denying us a say on where we are going it makes us even more suspicious of the politicians' motives. Freedom from tyranny is something precious that millions have given their lives for and it is being taken away from us and being given no choice in the matter. If it is such a good thing for us then they need to convince us and going by the majority of public opinion they haven't managed that yet.Oh, and being an avid Daily Mail reader who abhors the left wing bias of the BBC I think a little cynicism is quite a good thing don't you.....
03-04-2014, 09:46 AM
35
Re: Who Is Nigel Farage
Originally Posted by plantman
->
I think one of the biggest resentments that I have about the current EU set up is that we have been brought here by stealth and not by choice. :
I am not a fan of Farage but I have no love of the EU either.
03-04-2014, 09:47 AM
36
Re: Who Is Nigel Farage
Originally Posted by manasota
->
My first reply on here. It never ceases to amaze me how virulently anti-European so many people in this country are without having any genuine reason other than nonsense like they're going to outlaw the British sausage and suchlike. Specifically on Farage, just remember this guy is to all intents and purposes, a Conservative with identical policies on just about everything, and the three things he's most associated with - withdrawal from the EU, immigration, and protecting the pound - are core to Conservative philosophy. So how is he or his party any different? I don't know where you got the idea that withdrawal from the EU is a Tory policy - far from it - apart from a few old school Tories - they are as virulent supporters of the EU as are the Labour and LibDem parties. Similarly, all three parties love the cheap labour and wage depression which comes from mass immigration, but, with the exception of the LibDems, they feel they have to mouth platitudes about reducing immigration to keep the majority of the population who have been negatively affected by mass immigration under control.
03-04-2014, 10:06 AM
37
Re: Who Is Nigel Farage
Well I've given it extra thought and saw the debate last night.Calling Farage a 'clown' is in itself laughable.
He has been the only man that has put the British public in the picture ! And, had the nerve to do it.
He may laugh at times, but then so would I. Seeing him giving them grief at the European 'arena' was something to behold. He can join me and fight my corner anytime.
I was conned once, in respect of the common market - now thanks to Farage, he has the parties and the Euro fat cats seriously worried for the first time, 'he' has made them sit up or should I say 'wake up' and be counted.
Good on 'im.
03-04-2014, 10:24 AM
38
Re: Who Is Nigel Farage
The EU wants to destroy nations and make regions.London I think will be called, region EU 1
If you want to know more, there is a couple of books ...Disappearing Britain The EU and the Death of Local Government by Lindsay Jenkins ... and Saving England by Vernon Coleman.
Did you know that other countries in Europe, simply ignore the rules that don't suit them .. we obey.
03-04-2014, 11:59 AM
39
Re: Who Is Nigel Farage
Originally Posted by Janela
->
The EU wants to destroy nations and make regions.London I think will be called, region EU 1
If you want to know more, there is a couple of books ...Disappearing Britain The EU and the Death of Local Government by Lindsay Jenkins ... and Saving England by Vernon Coleman.
Did you know that other countries in Europe, simply ignore the rules that don't suit them .. we obey.
03-04-2014, 12:10 PM
40
Re: Who Is Nigel Farage
Whether it's nonsense or not what is happening now is damaging our country so for that reason alone it seems crazy to stay in it. Also I am over 50 and never been asked whether I want this union or not. We need to ask people and see if the experiment has worked because what we have now is as far from a common market (we signed up for) as you could get.|
|
