10-06-2013, 10:38 AM
12
Re: Moral Dilemmas - are you for him or against?
Airwaves are public. Anyone can intercept your calls if they actually cared enough to and a judge signed off on this order so the 4th amendment was not violated.Judge Vinson Gets Second Turn in Spotlight - Washington Wire - WSJ
Anyway,this doesn't seem to be about listening to personal calls so much as getting phone records and other info'. It's doubtful your mundane phone calls are being fed up the food chain. So would you rather thousands die in a NYC subway so you get the warm feeling that your phone calls are private?
If folk are so worried they should get off their bums and talk face to face or write letters, nobody's forced to use a phone.
And using information given to you is not the same as providing (stealing) it from an employer
10-06-2013, 12:25 PM
14
Re: Moral Dilemmas - are you for him or against?
tricky one both Julian Assange and this guy are both passionate and totally believe what they are doing. It is always a thin line between the rights of the individual in society and societies protection from anarchy - surveillance can easily get out of hand - so whilst I think it is being done for the right reasons there is no harm in reminding them that democracy means for the people, by the people with the people or something like that . sometimes governments forget that!
ps: it is also teaching governments to be more careful and not let their guard down?
10-06-2013, 10:39 PM
15
Re: Moral Dilemmas - are you for him or against?
I can't assume that I understand the mindset of people that see him as a hero, but it appears to me that what is admired about this young man is that he revealed information that he thought the public should be aware of. Whether the man in questions was doing it for less than saintly reasons, such as ego, is something I'm not going to address.For a long time, the subculture of America says: "Question Authority". There is nothing wrong with that and a lot of times it is vital to do just that. But that does not mean that the government should have absolutely no secrets from the general public. The government is the only entity that spends 24/7 trying to stop citizens from harm. No other country, or organization on this planet cares. Can we agree on that?
Consider what your newly acquired knowledge of this program has achieved. The man who divulged this information said that he thinks the American citizens should decide if this project should even exist. On what data are we, the general public, basing our judgement on? We will do what we can only do, and that is to express our opinion which is not supported with any facts.
Our collective opinions about secret metadata collection methods and how the database mechanisms currently in place prohibit abuse is not based on Knowledge, just conjecture.
The people that have the knowledge and access to the security clearances to make sure this system is not misused are the ones this guy should have informed. There are multiple agencies involved with the program and if people in these agencies were made aware as well, then work could be done to help decrease the likelihood of misuse. The different agencies operate independent from each other so there are check and balances.
So while we guess and pontificate, we may be exposing our underbelly. What if, the program performs as it was designed to, but there is a 10% chance that an abuse can take place 10 times a year? Do we destroy the program and the years of work and flush the zillions of dollars down the toilet. Or do we correct the problems and keep the tool that helps us from getting blown up or poisoned, etc?
As I write this, I am listening to world news. The UK is wondering if the United States is violating Europeans rights. How is that helpful?
10-06-2013, 11:31 PM
18
Re: Moral Dilemmas - are you for him or against?
Originally Posted by anewday
->
Thank you MindBender. Nice place you have here!
11-06-2013, 08:49 AM
19
Re: Moral Dilemmas - are you for him or against?
Originally Posted by anewday
->
I can't assume that I understand the mindset of people that see him as a hero, but it appears to me that what is admired about this young man is that he revealed information that he thought the public should be aware of. Whether the man in questions was doing it for less than saintly reasons, such as ego, is something I'm not going to address. For a long time, the subculture of America says: "Question Authority". There is nothing wrong with that and a lot of times it is vital to do just that. But that does not mean that the government should have absolutely no secrets from the general public. The government is the only entity that spends 24/7 trying to stop citizens from harm. No other country, or organization on this planet cares. Can we agree on that?
Consider what your newly acquired knowledge of this program has achieved. The man who divulged this information said that he thinks the American citizens should decide if this project should even exist. On what data are we, the general public, basing our judgement on? We will do what we can only do, and that is to express our opinion which is not supported with any facts.
Our collective opinions about secret metadata collection methods and how the database mechanisms currently in place prohibit abuse is not based on Knowledge, just conjecture.
The people that have the knowledge and access to the security clearances to make sure this system is not misused are the ones this guy should have informed. There are multiple agencies involved with the program and if people in these agencies were made aware as well, then work could be done to help decrease the likelihood of misuse. The different agencies operate independent from each other so there are check and balances.
So while we guess and pontificate, we may be exposing our underbelly. What if, the program performs as it was designed to, but there is a 10% chance that an abuse can take place 10 times a year? Do we destroy the program and the years of work and flush the zillions of dollars down the toilet. Or do we correct the problems and keep the tool that helps us from getting blown up or poisoned, etc?
As I write this, I am listening to world news. The UK is wondering if the United States is violating Europeans rights. How is that helpful?
But don't you understand, these are the very people who designed and implemented this spying programme!!! These are the 'gooks'. And your further comments demonstrate quite admirably the American psyche or paranoia. Someone who in all probability checks for 'reds under bed' on a daily basis.
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