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Flicker
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10-04-2017, 10:03 AM
21

Re: Oh dear, the EU is not having all its own way.

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
I started a thread a few days ago asking why people left the uk, I was surprised no one actually disliked or hated uk, because from what flicker has said its like she hates uk and that was her reason to leave. It was uplifting to realise that's not the reason others have left. Loving uk as I do I was hoping others didn't hate it so much they'd leave us.
Julie I first left the UK "permanently" in 1996.

Why? Because I had been in schools either as a student or teacher for nearly 40 years and wanted to find out what life is like outside an academic environment. I had studied French for many years so France seemed to be the logical choice. Plus one of my teachers had whetted my appetite.
I found space, clean air, lower prices and lovely people. I found opportunity to rebuild a house, find a new activity among animals, experience life as a shepherd in the high Pyrenees, supermarkets that did not have a whole aisle dedicated to different shaped frozen chips but instead items from a wide variety of sources I had not been familiar with...Spain, the Basque country, etc. I found a lot of lovely people who came from a lot of lovely places and in fact count among my friends those from South Africa, Germany, the USA, Sweden and the UK.

I don't hate the UK!! What a silly notion. You can't hate a country. What can you hate? Landscape? Politics? People individually or in general (and how do you do that?) Their habits? culture? sports? Infrastructure and travel? The list goes on and on.

HOWEVER what I hate is the gullibility of enough Brits to cause the country to lose so much of what I like about it. You have in fact destroyed some of the very things I love about the UK...
Just today I was reading how the UK govt is seriously thinking of relaxing some environmental and labour protection so they can sell to the Arabs and African countries...less regulation equals a lower price.
Some have been saying it will be OK to introduce GM crops. Others that they don't mind eating hormone infested beef from the US.
In fact to introduce GM crop you have to exclude natural crops from 15 Km around because of pollen dispersal. That means a far lower yield of non GM crops which you will need if you still trade with the EU. The UK doesn't have the room.
Secondly the chemicals used on US animal rearing have been prevented from entering the EU market for very good reasons. But if there is such competition with UK animal products the US will clearly be sold for much less and the less well off will be forced to eat crap where the richer can afford "cleaner" meat. Now how does that help the average UK resident?

Whichever way you cut the cake, the standard of living for the less well off will be lower. Imported food will be more expensive. Wages won't go up because you can't afford to make your products more expensive if you want to sell them in an open global market.

Without going into other areas of the UK economy what I have come to dislike so intensely is the utter lack of real discussion about the REAL honest impact of Brexit over and above the emotional crap you were told. We tried to warn you but were labelled as fear mongering and you all went deaf. THAT I hated. I hate the drip feed of the nationalistic newspapers that have been telling half truths and tales for 40 years. and finally I hate to the ends of the earth your desire to do Russia's bidding and weaken the west. To assume that the EU will collapse and that to see that as a good thing...exactly what Putin wants. I see that as treason through ignorance and that the worst perpetrators are Farage and Boris, along with the rest of that ship of fools.

Brexit has all but ruined the UK and her wonderful growth and being first among equals.

I went back to the UK in 2005 and stayed 5 years to see what the place was like. It was not hard to come back here and know I am here permanently. As Richard Dawkins said recently, the UK is full of nastiness. and here I still have all the things I loved about it when I came in 1996 plus the intelligence not to throw it away.
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Flicker
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10-04-2017, 10:19 AM
22

Re: Oh dear, the EU is not having all its own way.

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

Leaving to me was about leaving a corrupt and undemocratic organisation, run for the benefit of the few and to our detriment.

Merkel, who needs the Euro to keep the German currency artificially depressed, Juncker, who still keeps Luxembourg as the biggest Tax Haven in the EU, both of whom do not pay for their own Defence and expect the USA, UK, Greece and Poland to pay for it.

France, which breaks every rule in the book with seemingly total impunity.

Plenty of reasons to leave, few to stay.
SF can you please tell me what is undemocratic about the EU?

Secondly since the EU trades as a bloc, how does a depressed German currency matter? She trades in euros. If the euro went up in value it would make its exports more expensive. In fact the UK has been profiting from a lower euro.
Lastly this defence thing is some take on something that idiot in the White House said. No one ever thought of it before. So please stop with the crocodile tears. Germany didn't have an army until the mid 50's because it was not allowed to have one. Today being land locked it concentrates on land based defence and doesn't need to spend 2% of its budget on defence. Greece is all but bankrupt and the EU has been there to protect the country from the ravages of the refugees that turned up on its beaches.
NATO is there to protect the west from "enemy" attack. The Real attacks are not now military...they are computer based and ideological. Including "helping" Russia to penetrate elections and in general, the west. The UK, for all its 2% spending, has been the first to open up divisions in Western defence by leaving(weakening) the EU. It has consistently refused to back an EU army which could have (and will) add more defence to eastern pressure. IOW much of what NATO was for has changed. Money instead os going to intelligence and technological warfare. Now if you changed the role of NATO from major military hardware and into more modern warfare, perhaps countries might be willing to contribute. At the moment they are spending on effective defence.

So I ask again...what is undemocratic about the EU?
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10-04-2017, 10:55 AM
23

Re: Oh dear, the EU is not having all its own way.

Hi

I am once again totally amazed by your misunderstanding of the situation.

NATO Expenditure includes monies spent on cyber warfare.

The EU has naff all electronic intelligence gathering capabilities.

It is totally reliant upon Five Eyes.

The EU has no code cracking abilities, the UK has GCHQ, the best in the World, and the information comes from Menwith Hill.

The ability of France to intercept and then decode messages is such that it would take them days to finish the Times Crossword.

Germany does not drop bombs abroad, they make a great play of this, keeping within their boundaries, no offensive action outside their Borders.

Germany leases the few drones it has from Israel.

Enough jousting with you, I have more important things to do.

My toe nails need cutting.
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Flicker
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10-04-2017, 11:05 AM
24

Re: Oh dear, the EU is not having all its own way.

and I cannot be bothered to go through it all properly.You have made some very generalised opinionated remarks that do not stand up to scrutiny.

I am also interested that you haven't answered a question I asked twice.
What is undemocratic about the EU?
Julie1962
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10-04-2017, 11:07 AM
25

Re: Oh dear, the EU is not having all its own way.

Aha so you love the country just not the people now that puzzles me why you are on a mainly uk forum if we are all so wrong.
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10-04-2017, 11:17 AM
26

Re: Oh dear, the EU is not having all its own way.

Here's a few questions for you Swimmy, as you have a lot of knowledge on this subject

Article 50 has now been triggered, so there is no going back.

1)Can you then explain to me why some people in the EU find that difficult to understand?

2)What do they gain from trying to convince people that it was a mistake, when it cannot be changed.

3)Are they too stupid to recognize that Britain has made it's decision, so no matter what they say, nothing will be changed?

4) Do you think that Britain leaving the EU is so traumatic for them, that they just can't let it drop?

5) Do they have nothing better to do with their time?


Just asking.....
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JBR
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10-04-2017, 11:51 AM
27

Re: Oh dear, the EU is not having all its own way.

Originally Posted by realspeed ->
Flicker
if you are so much against the UK then damn well get off a UK forum and stay with your froggie friends forums over there
Hear hear.

I never read her nonsensical blatherings. Her posts just clutter up this forum for absolutely no gain.
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JBR
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10-04-2017, 11:53 AM
28

Re: Oh dear, the EU is not having all its own way.

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
I started a thread a few days ago asking why people left the uk, I was surprised no one actually disliked or hated uk, because from what flicker has said its like she hates uk and that was her reason to leave. It was uplifting to realise that's not the reason others have left. Loving uk as I do I was hoping others didn't hate it so much they'd leave us.
Jealousy. That's why she left, and that's why she keeps sticking her oar in.

The French in general are jealous of the British on several counts.
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JBR
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10-04-2017, 11:59 AM
29

Re: Oh dear, the EU is not having all its own way.

Originally Posted by Twink55 ->
Here's a few questions for you Swimmy, as you have a lot of knowledge on this subject

Article 50 has now been triggered, so there is no going back.

1)Can you then explain to me why some people in the EU find that difficult to understand?

2)What do they gain from trying to convince people that it was a mistake, when it cannot be changed.

3)Are they too stupid to recognize that Britain has made it's decision, so no matter what they say, nothing will be changed?

4) Do you think that Britain leaving the EU is so traumatic for them, that they just can't let it drop?

5) Do they have nothing better to do with their time?


Just asking.....
Desperation.

They realise that we are leaving, but are very worried that when we stop paying them they will have to make up the shortfall.

As a consequence, they are desperately trying to support their fifth columnists - the remainiacs - to do what they possibly can to stop Brexit happening.

I just hope that TM doesn't fall for it.
Julie1962
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10-04-2017, 12:01 PM
30

Re: Oh dear, the EU is not having all its own way.

I don't think she will she seems more than many to understand the mood of the moment.
 
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