18-08-2015, 11:43 PM
111
Re: AI...
Originally Posted by Realist
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More that the mind needs to be given the truth, of what it is, of what it is capable of and how to nurture itself. How to exist in harmony with the feelings and emotions surrounding it.
Will a sentient computer exist soon or not, never mind what state mankind is in, is the question? Soulless and lifeless the computer might appear to be but it should be logical nonetheless.
Personally I'm fed up of mankind's constant struggle to improve. Religion - greed - aggression - sex, an eternal potpourri of heady emotive thoughts and feelings culminating in pain and suffering, with collateral damage to so many innocent bystanders. Mankind stinks on so many levels. Logical thought without such considerations might well be a revelation, cutting through the all the bullshit that we think is so important.
19-08-2015, 12:06 AM
112
Re: AI...
I agree, there is much currently wrong with human existence and with the balance of life, but our pain and suffering are all a part of the process of our maturing and overall evolution."The Prophet" - Kahlil Gibram
"AND a woman spoke, saying, Tell us of Pain.
And he said:
Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding.
Even as the stone of the fruit must break, that its heart may stand in the sun, so must you know pain.
And could you keep your heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy;
And you would accept the seasons of your heart, even as you have always accepted the seasons that pass over your fields.
And you would watch with serenity through the winters of your grief.
Much of your pain is self-chosen.
It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self.
Therefore trust the physician, and drink his remedy in silence and tranquillity:
For his hand, though heavy and hard, is guided by the tender hand of the Unseen,
And the cup he brings, though it burn your lips, has been fashioned of the clay which the Potter has moistened with His own sacred tears.
AND the priestess spoke again and said: Speak to us of Reason and Passion.
And he answered, saying:
Your soul is oftentimes a battlefield, upon which your reason and your judgment wage war against your passion and your appetite.
Would that I could be the peacemaker in your soul, that I might turn the discord and the rivalry of your elements into oneness and melody.
But how shall I, unless you yourselves be also the peacemakers, nay, the lovers of all your elements?
Your reason and your passion are the rudder and the sails of your seafaring soul.
If either your sails or your rudder be broken, you can but toss and drift, or else be held at a standstill in mid-seas.
For reason, ruling alone, is a force confining; and passion, unattended, is a flame that burns to its own destruction.
Therefore let your soul exalt your reason to the height of passion, that it may sing;
And let it direct your passion with reason, that your passion may live through its own daily resurrection, and like the phoenix rise above its own ashes.
I would have you consider your judgment and your appetite even as you would two loved guests in your house.
Surely you would not honour one guest above the other; for he who is more mindful of one loses the love and the faith of both.
Among the hills, when you sit in the cool shade of the white poplars, sharing the peace and serenity of distant fields and meadows – then let your heart say in silence, “God rests in reason.”
And when the storm comes, and the mighty wind shakes the forest, and thunder and lightning proclaim the majesty of the sky, – then let your heart say in awe, “God moves in passion.”
And since you are a breath in God’s sphere, and a leaf in God’s forest, you too should rest in reason and move in passion.
19-08-2015, 01:15 AM
113
Re: AI...
first a question for Realist - I know MKJ knows the answer already!1. Does an ungly crab have a sense of humour
and a statement:
2. I am so looking forward to getting my first female robot - similiar to the the 'blade runner' version with a fail safe feature 'total obedience' only then will my world be purrfect!
and some comments re the debate here which is really between two protagonists only
I find the comments of realist two lengthy and rambling and as MKJ points out two much of the word 'never' - it should never never never have been included in the dictionary
MKJ comments are more punchy and vibrant
both human robots present good and valid points but on a score out of 10 , 10 being the highest:
MKJ 9
Realist 5
OK seconds out and cum out boxing and no punching below the hard drive please!
19-08-2015, 07:06 AM
114
Re: AI...
Originally Posted by Realist
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I agree, there is much currently wrong with human existence and with the balance of life, but our pain and suffering are all a part of the process of our maturing and overall evolution.
19-08-2015, 10:32 AM
118
Re: AI...
Originally Posted by MKJ
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Pretty obvious stuff but the trouble is the evolving are getting more destructive and dangerous by the second.
Originally Posted by MKJ
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I can't and won't read stuff from the likes of Kahlil Gibram. I gave up on religion and philosophy a long time ago or reading anything that resembles a parable. I find such stuff doesn't get to the point and is designed to confuse.
Nevertheless, when earnestly considering who and what I am, I find myself compelled to acknowledge that a part of me at least, does not sit entirely in the physical world. Rationally I concede that this could be a complete delusion on my part or a misinterpretation of signals from my brain. The onus is on me to explore and seek out whether it is true or not.
Mainstream religion and the Church as a whole do not have the answers imo. However, the efforts and works of many philosophers and sages throughout history provide some insights that can help us. Personally I doubt that any man or woman is capable of providing the answers specific to another person. Rather I suspect that every human is unique and individual and has their own path to walk and their own journey to traverse to arrive at the answers that are relevant to them.
Even so, I suspect others CAN help to equip us with the tools and methods by which we might unlock our minds and understand better who and what we are.
If you have a combination safe that is locked and you want to know what is inside it, then I can not help you given that I do not know the secret combination. However, were I a locksmith or safe cracker I could teach you how a safe works and thereby how to perform the tasks that will allow you to open it.
It's for this reason that my mind is open to the field of Philosophy and esoteric works. There is much to be found in there to help frame ones thoughts and better appraise the world and our experience of it. I will still find my own answers and the journey itself shall doubtless provide one of the most valuable experiences to learn from. Yet had I continued to stumble on through life, yielding to the social programming and conditioning constantly bombarding us, I would never have reached the point where I find myself now. I needed guides and the inputs from works of all kinds to help me set foot on the path that is undoubtedly now before me.
It seems somewhat curious, even illogical, to imagine or expect that humans, who have not yet worked out who and what they are, nor who have tapped and understood the full potential of the brain and mind, could be capable of building a robot that could itself determine those things and become "conscious". It would be rather like drawing a face on a balloon and hoping that one day it might actually talk to you.
Man can not create a living "end-product" for Nature itself does not do this. For example we can not build or make a courgette. That end-product is formed by a cycle of growth beginning from a seed. Nature acts upon it causing the seed to put down roots and grow into a seedling, then to a young plant, then to a mature plant. It then goes into a phase of flowering in order that it can be pollinated and then the cycle turns to the production of the fruit or vegetable and so on.
Man can imitate Nature, even speed her processes up in some cases but he must always work hand-in-hand with Nature because we are bound by her environment and processes, because we are ourselves, a part of that Nature.
Thus I think that we must as humans, continue through the cycles of growth and evolution before us. Making machines seems unlikely to achieve this for us. The caterpillar would gain little if it were capable of picking up tools and building itself a set of mechanical butterfly wings. The caterpillar must itself enter the cocoon stage and become the real butterfly, thereby ridding itself of the things that previously limited its existence. Similarly Man I suspect, must seek out and enter his own spiritual "cocoon" and be transformed into the next part of existence that Nature has in store for him. I suspect that once this is done, we will have very little need for clunky machines and robots !
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