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23-05-2021, 11:03 PM
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A step toward complete democracy?

Penny Mordaunt, a government minister, has proposed that the House of Lords should be abolished in its present form and become an electable body.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...aunt-nhh386jb3

She'd certainly have my vote.
This is something that should have happened at least a hundred years ago as they certainly don't represent us ordinary people in any way. The numbers should also be reduced drastically.
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23-05-2021, 11:07 PM
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Re: A step toward complete democracy?

I suspect that once she has been offered a place in the HoL, she'll change her tune. They usually do.
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23-05-2021, 11:19 PM
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Re: A step toward complete democracy?

Originally Posted by Dextrous63 ->
I suspect that once she has been offered a place in the HoL, she'll change her tune. They usually do.
Which is why it has been there for hundreds of years.
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24-05-2021, 12:29 AM
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Re: A step toward complete democracy?

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Which is why it has been there for hundreds of years.
And will be for another few hundred years.
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24-05-2021, 12:40 AM
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Re: A step toward complete democracy?

Originally Posted by Dextrous63 ->
And will be for another few hundred years.
Quite probably.
But why shouldn't we have totally elected government bodies?

Apart from the EU Commission, which of course is not a democratically elected body, how many other Western nations have a government that is not democratically elected?

The Yanks have the House of Representatives, which are elected by the people, but how is the Senate elected?
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24-05-2021, 12:44 AM
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Re: A step toward complete democracy?

Don't really understand how the US works.

One of the problems of having an elected second chamber is that presumably it would mirror the population of the commons in terms of proportion of representatives. In which case, what would it's purpose be if, in effect, it would be nodding through laws proposed by the government.
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24-05-2021, 02:00 AM
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Re: A step toward complete democracy?

The Senate: There are two senators elected to each state for a six-year term. The timing is such that one-third are elected every two years. This ensures continuity of experience of at least two-thirds of senators at any one time. The purpose of two votes per state is to enable each state to have equal representation, preventing more populous states from passing legislation that would always primarily benefit more populous states.

The House of Representatives: Representatives are elected for four year terms and the number allocated to each state is based on the population as determined by the census (conducted every ten years). This ensures proportional representation given that more populous states have different needs than smaller states. The number of representatives as people move in and out of states. The entire House is up for election every four years.

Congress:: The founding fathers established the bicameral Congress to prevent the tyranny of a runaway legislature. Legislation can be introduced in either the House of Representatives and the Senate, but must be passed by the other house and signed by the President for it to become law. There is an option for Congress to override a vetoed (refused) bill by the President, but that requires a two-thirds majority by all of Congress.

Hope this helps .
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24-05-2021, 03:20 AM
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Re: A step toward complete democracy?

Thanks for that Surfermom. I've always found the USA system confusing. Virtually 'tri' cameral with a president who appears to have much more individual power that a Prime Minister has and 2 senators from states with minimal population having as much clout as states with 10 times the population seems undemocratic. Maybe you should be 50 countries?
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24-05-2021, 10:00 AM
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Re: A step toward complete democracy?

First to go should be the "first past the post" nonsense with the HOL following very close behind.
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24-05-2021, 10:15 AM
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Re: A step toward complete democracy?

Originally Posted by Dextrous63 ->
Don't really understand how the US works.

One of the problems of having an elected second chamber is that presumably it would mirror the population of the commons in terms of proportion of representatives. In which case, what would it's purpose be if, in effect, it would be nodding through laws proposed by the government.
Agreed. But how do you ever implement complete neutrality? How do we appoint judges for example?

If you want more individual democracy you'd need to have some form of swiss type referendum system.
 
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