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Minx
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09-01-2021, 11:48 AM
11

Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
That's not a novel idea Minx !!
Nor is it democracy !!We have been there and done that. !!
The corruption here is covert !!
Your corruption is overt !!
What is the worst ??

Donkeyman! 🤔🤔
Covert is much worse.
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Donkeyman
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09-01-2021, 12:22 PM
12

Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by Minx ->
Covert is much worse.
Yes, l agree !
At least your crooks are honest ?? 😀

Donkeyman! 👍👍
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09-01-2021, 12:52 PM
13

Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

They are there to hold the elected Politicians to account.

They can only hold things up, they cannot overrule Parliament.

Do not forget, we could have had Corbyn in Power.
That is the theory but in practise it isn't very democratic to overrule the express wishes of the electorate as they have done so many times recently.
Why should an unelected set of out-of-touch privileged oiks be allowed to even "hold things up" for no goos reason other than to suit their own agenda rather than that of the people they supposedly serve?
It is time they were abolished.


Your "Corbyn" comment has no relevence here since the HoL would still be pretty much as it is and certainly still hold the powers it does.
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PooBear
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09-01-2021, 12:57 PM
14

Re: Democracy

True democracy doesn't work. Take the EU - 26 vote for a change and one doesn't so the change doesn't happen.

In this country, the majority want to get rid of the Lords, yet it doesn't happen.

In America 60% of the electorate want some sort of gun control and yet it doesn't happen and why?

Because lobbying takes place, palms are greased and we get the status quo.
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09-01-2021, 12:58 PM
15

Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by Minx ->
Covert is much worse.
It is indeed.
That's why so many want rid of the HoL or at best major reform.
Boris included, by all accounts.


I don't know if you are able to read the following from The Times (there are ways) but I will put it here in case you can; it makes for interesting reading.

Entitled "Is Boris Johnson trying to push the House of Lords into extinction?" It contains such gems as this:

' Professor Meg Russell, the director of the constitutions unit at University College London, says: “Many people, including some on the government’s own benches in the Lords, believe that these appointments are part of a deliberate strategy to undermine the reputation of the Lords in order to weaken parliamentary scrutiny against the government.”
The Countess of Mar agrees. “I am certain that has been going on. The house is going to be made a laughing stock and it will be an excuse for getting rid of it.” '

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...tion-wp08hb86c
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09-01-2021, 01:03 PM
16

Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by PooBear ->
True democracy doesn't work. Take the EU - 26 vote for a change and one doesn't so the change doesn't happen.

In this country, the majority want to get rid of the Lords, yet it doesn't happen.

In America 60% of the electorate want some sort of gun control and yet it doesn't happen and why?

Because lobbying takes place, palms are greased and we get the status quo.
None of what you provide then can be accurately classified as "true democracy".
There is nothing truly democratic about ignoring the wishes of an informed majority and it is with that one word, "informed", that problems arise - as we see with multiple examples globally.
It is extremely difficult to determine how well-informed anybody needs to be in order to make an educated and logical decision.
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PooBear
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09-01-2021, 01:10 PM
17

Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
It is indeed.
That's why so many want rid of the HoL or at best major reform.
Boris included, by all accounts.


I don't know if you are able to read the following from The Times (there are ways) but I will put it here in case you can; it makes for interesting reading.

Entitled "Is Boris Johnson trying to push the House of Lords into extinction?" It contains such gems as this:

' Professor Meg Russell, the director of the constitutions unit at University College London, says: “Many people, including some on the government’s own benches in the Lords, believe that these appointments are part of a deliberate strategy to undermine the reputation of the Lords in order to weaken parliamentary scrutiny against the government.”
The Countess of Mar agrees. “I am certain that has been going on. The house is going to be made a laughing stock and it will be an excuse for getting rid of it.” '

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...tion-wp08hb86c

Simply ask the people, then let the people elect the upper chamber - and God help them if they screw it up.
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The Artful Todger
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09-01-2021, 01:15 PM
18

Re: Democracy

The UK is NOT democratic. Far from it. Being able to make very limited criticism of the government has SFA to do with democracy.
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09-01-2021, 01:38 PM
19

Re: Democracy

With only two proper political parties to choose from 'Democracy' is just a figment of everyone's imagination. The state making you think you have some choices....Anyone like Farage who cares about this country and could have made a difference is made to look a fool and allowed to be ridiculed by the media. We are all controlled and manipulated by the media under instruction from the establishment. The worst thing though......We don't even know or acknowledge that they are doing it!
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09-01-2021, 01:57 PM
20

Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi



Do not forget, we could have had Corbyn in Power.
Perish the thought!
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