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Dextrous63
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09-01-2021, 02:08 PM
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Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by OldGreyFox ->
With only two proper political parties to choose from 'Democracy' is just a figment of everyone's imagination. The state making you think you have some choices....Anyone like Farage who cares about this country and could have made a difference is made to look a fool and allowed to be ridiculed by the media. We are all controlled and manipulated by the media under instruction from the establishment. The worst thing though......We don't even know or acknowledge that they are doing it!
There are plenty of parties and interest groups to vote for. The problem is more about there being no proportional representation, which means that a lot of tactical voting takes place rather that trying to select something you actually believe in.
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Donkeyman
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09-01-2021, 02:20 PM
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Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by OldGreyFox ->
With only two proper political parties to choose from 'Democracy' is just a figment of everyone's imagination. The state making you think you have some choices....Anyone like Farage who cares about this country and could have made a difference is made to look a fool and allowed to be ridiculed by the media. We are all controlled and manipulated by the media under instruction from the establishment. The worst thing though......We don't even know or acknowledge that they are doing it!
We are not even sure who the "establishment" are OGF??
Most of the usual suspects are only servants of the the " establishment" !!

Donkeyman! 👎👎
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PooBear
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09-01-2021, 02:32 PM
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Re: Democracy

Let's face it, politicians are a bunch of lying, two-faced hypocrites who are skilled in sophistry with the sole purpose of feathering their own nests in a hugely flawed political society.

If in the process of feeding their gluttony, they help you, then so much your good fortune.
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Dextrous63
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09-01-2021, 02:49 PM
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Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by PooBear ->
Let's face it, politicians are a bunch of lying, two-faced hypocrites who are skilled in sophistry with the sole purpose of feathering their own nests in a hugely flawed political society.

If in the process of feeding their gluttony, they help you, then so much your good fortune.
My old fella made up the term "powerosis". This ailment happens when someone enters a position of power or authority, initially with good intentions and a sound moral status, but inexorably soon suffers from powerosis as they become self important, vainglorious and embedded within the system they joined, and totally divorced from their initial desire to good (although they do recite the script, but have entirely forgotten that they actually meant it)
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Zaphod
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09-01-2021, 03:02 PM
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Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by PooBear ->
Let's face it, politicians are a bunch of lying, two-faced hypocrites who are skilled in sophistry with the sole purpose of feathering their own nests in a hugely flawed political society.

If in the process of feeding their gluttony, they help you, then so much your good fortune.
That seems to be universal across the world, whether it's with communism or so-called democracy.
In fact probably even more-so in countries that aren't seen as being democratic.

It is only the self-serving that keep the likes of Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-un and Vladimir Putin in power for example - although I must add that I recognise that there are many other reasons too BUT without the compliant subservience of so many senior figures their countries would most likely be very different places politically.
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The Artful Todger
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09-01-2021, 03:29 PM
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Re: Democracy

Nowt much wrong with the Grey Cardinal, a lot of people would no doubt be surprised to learn that there's greater freedom of speech in Russia than the UK, certainly as regards "socially sensitive" matters.
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Lindyloo
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09-01-2021, 03:39 PM
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Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by Dextrous63 ->
My old fella made up the term "powerosis". This ailment happens when someone enters a position of power or authority, initially with good intentions and a sound moral status, but inexorably soon suffers from powerosis as they become self important, vainglorious and embedded within the system they joined, and totally divorced from their initial desire to good (although they do recite the script, but have entirely forgotten that they actually meant it)
Totally agree and excellent post from PooBear - couldn't have put it better myself.

What we need is some form of ongoing electoral approval or disapproval which is capable of ousting someone from their post! The MP for the Isle of Wight - which is bluer than blue and has an ALL conservative council - is hardly ever here! It's said he's hoping to be given a position on a Select Committee - but it hasn't happened so far and frankly I can't see it will ever happen. In the meantime, he does absolutely nothing other than huff and puff and make empty promises until..............just before an election he'll pull the bunny out of the hat and say what a success he's been.
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09-01-2021, 04:52 PM
28

Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by Minx ->

A novel idea is that only taxpayers and people with a certain level of Education gets to vote - not the entire population over the age of majority.
We have the opposite, but we even had a referendum on our state ballot this election season to allow non-citizens to vote. Thankfully it was shot down. There are many legal paths to citizenship and if you want the right to vote, then you have to travel the legal path.

Originally Posted by spitfire ->
That condition is probably antagonised by wot I typed.
:

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
We already have a way to hold our elected politicians to account.
It's called an election.
Those who disagree with the actions of an elected politician have the option to vote them out.

Bingo! The problem is we don't have term limits, which we desperately need for Congress.
Yes, but to make them more effective we have got to instate term limits for Congress the same way we have done for the presidency.

Originally Posted by PooBear ->
True democracy doesn't work.

In America 60% of the electorate want some sort of gun control and yet it doesn't happen and why?

Because lobbying takes place, palms are greased and we get the status quo.
True democracy is the best model there is. Unquestionably, the insidious nature of lobbying has its grips on many reforms and bills. Lobbyists are not just infused with money, but a path for politicians and aids to make good money when they lose their offices. There are over 10K in Washington right now.
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OldGreyFox
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09-01-2021, 05:34 PM
29

Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by Dextrous63 ->
There are plenty of parties and interest groups to vote for. The problem is more about there being no proportional representation, which means that a lot of tactical voting takes place rather that trying to select something you actually believe in.
Trouble is Dex, a vote for any other than the two main parties would be a wasted vote....
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OldGreyFox
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09-01-2021, 05:38 PM
30

Re: Democracy

Originally Posted by Lindyloo ->
Totally agree and excellent post from PooBear - couldn't have put it better myself.

What we need is some form of ongoing electoral approval or disapproval which is capable of ousting someone from their post! The MP for the Isle of Wight - which is bluer than blue and has an ALL conservative council - is hardly ever here! It's said he's hoping to be given a position on a Select Committee - but it hasn't happened so far and frankly I can't see it will ever happen. In the meantime, he does absolutely nothing other than huff and puff and make empty promises until..............just before an election he'll pull the bunny out of the hat and say what a success he's been.
We have the same here Lindy, except it's an all labour council. Because of labours stance against brexit we managed to chip away at their domination, but I suspect that at the next general election those that lost their seats will be re elected.
They even altered the constituency boundaries to make sure they didn't lose seats.
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