29-05-2013, 08:18 PM
21
Re: The Death Penalty has reared its ugly head!
Originally Posted by MKJ
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Darn and there I was thinking I was being so original. Shot down in flames again 
.
30-05-2013, 12:59 AM
22
Re: The Death Penalty has reared its ugly head!
Apart from the moral question of state-sponsored killing, there are a couple of things about this that worry me.Firstly, how confident are we that our Judicial system ALWAYS gets it right ?
Witnesses (and police) have been known to lie, identifications are not always reliable, legal counsel are sometimes inept, the wealthy have far less chance of being convicted than the poor, scientific evidence is often disputed - or even proved wrong.
If we get it right 90% of the time (which I doubt), that still, potentially, leaves many total innnocents we are going to kill over the years.
In the Grand Ole USA, hundreds on death-row were released when DNA science advanced enough to prove they were not guilty.
Once you've executed someone, it's a bit late to say "sorry, got that wrong".
Secondly, a close family member of mine knowingly married a guy who had done "life" for murder - he had caught the victim screwing his wife and went bang !
He has proved a very valued tax-paying member of society and of our family for several decades now. Has received awards for community work and volunteering. None of which would have happened if he were dead.
30-05-2013, 01:03 AM
23
Re: The Death Penalty has reared its ugly head!
Originally Posted by Pumicestone
->
Apart from the moral question of state-sponsored killing, there are a couple of things about this that worry me.Firstly, how confident are we that our Judicial system ALWAYS gets it right ?
Witnesses (and police) have been known to lie, identifications are not always reliable, legal counsel are sometimes inept, the wealthy have far less chance of being convicted than the poor, scientific evidence is often disputed - or even proved wrong.
If we get it right 90% of the time (which I doubt), that still, potentially, leaves many total innnocents we are going to kill over the years.
Once you've executed someone, it's a bit late to say "sorry, got that wrong".
Secondly, a close family member of mine knowingly married a guy who had done "life" for murder - he had caught the victim screwing his wife and went bang !
He has proved a very valued tax-paying member of society and of our family for several decades now. Has received awards for community work and volunteering. None of which would have happened if he were dead.
30-05-2013, 07:29 AM
24
Re: The Death Penalty has reared its ugly head!
Originally Posted by Pumicestone
->
Apart from the moral question of state-sponsored killing, there are a couple of things about this that worry me.Firstly, how confident are we that our Judicial system ALWAYS gets it right ?
Witnesses (and police) have been known to lie, identifications are not always reliable, legal counsel are sometimes inept, the wealthy have far less chance of being convicted than the poor, scientific evidence is often disputed - or even proved wrong.
If we get it right 90% of the time (which I doubt), that still, potentially, leaves many total innnocents we are going to kill over the years.
In the Grand Ole USA, hundreds on death-row were released when DNA science advanced enough to prove they were not guilty.
Once you've executed someone, it's a bit late to say "sorry, got that wrong".
Secondly, a close family member of mine knowingly married a guy who had done "life" for murder - he had caught the victim screwing his wife and went bang !
He has proved a very valued tax-paying member of society and of our family for several decades now. Has received awards for community work and volunteering. None of which would have happened if he were dead.
I think the trouble with this subject matter is that it is so emotively charged and it is hard to be objective about it. I'm pretty sure that anyone caught up in the situations many can find themselves in where they have suffered from some serious wrong doing would want revenge. An 'eye for an eye' definitely fits the bill then. I also predict that many would change their tune and want the death penalty imposed whereas before they wouldn't.
I will say one thing though that it does seem awfully outdated and a rather primitive way to run a judicial system. But for people who have suffered some serious outrage it must be a living nightmare to have to keep going back to see the perpetrator again and again when faced with another appeal.
As for the law abiding citizen you talked about:
He has proved a very valued tax-paying member of society and of our family for several decades now. Has received awards for community work and volunteering. None of which would have happened if he were dead.
Very few would face the death penalty if it was brought back in this country. Certainly not the man you talked about above. Just the really creepy s*** that have been proven without doubt to be guilty of crimes too bad for anyone to consider an alternative method of treatment.
30-05-2013, 08:01 AM
25
Re: The Death Penalty has reared its ugly head!
Originally Posted by Pumicestone
->
Apart from the moral question of state-sponsored killing, there are a couple of things about this that worry me.Firstly, how confident are we that our Judicial system ALWAYS gets it right ?
Witnesses (and police) have been known to lie, identifications are not always reliable, legal counsel are sometimes inept, the wealthy have far less chance of being convicted than the poor, scientific evidence is often disputed - or even proved wrong.
If we get it right 90% of the time (which I doubt), that still, potentially, leaves many total innnocents we are going to kill over the years.
In the Grand Ole USA, hundreds on death-row were released when DNA science advanced enough to prove they were not guilty.
Once you've executed someone, it's a bit late to say "sorry, got that wrong".
Secondly, a close family member of mine knowingly married a guy who had done "life" for murder - he had caught the victim screwing his wife and went bang !
He has proved a very valued tax-paying member of society and of our family for several decades now. Has received awards for community work and volunteering. None of which would have happened if he were dead.
For me, the death penalty would be for those where the evidence is irrefutable such as the man now charged with the murder of Lee Rigby - there is simply no way he could be proven innocent and it would have to be deviants like that; all others where the evidence isn't as overwhelming would be treated as they are now.
With regard to your family member, his murdering someone wasn't premeditated but, to use the old-fashioned phrase, a crime of passion and none of us can state with absolute certainty that we wouldn't kill if the circumstances put us in a position that left little option.
31-05-2013, 01:21 AM
26
Re: The Death Penalty has reared its ugly head!
Originally Posted by ben-varrey
->
Hello Pumicestone, welcome to the forum......With regard to your family member, his murdering someone wasn't premeditated .......
For the sake of brevity, I did not detail that incident.
In fact, it was sufficiently premeditated for the guy to go off, borrow a shot-gun, buy ammo and lay in wait for the wife-rooter before blowing his head off.
In court when asked if he had any remorse he said "only that I shot the wrong one" (meaning his spouse).
Strangely, he and his ex are now on quite reasonable terms.
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