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Donkeyman
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23-11-2020, 03:27 PM
11

Re: Ominous News!!

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
Dunno, but if you feel you should say something please don't let what I write stop you.

No chance of that Zaph! 👍😁😁👍

Donkeyman! 😇😇
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23-11-2020, 09:28 PM
12

Re: Ominous News!!

Alex Belfield makes a good point.

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JBR
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23-11-2020, 11:37 PM
13

Re: Ominous News!!

It's true what some have said.
I read the Express when I look for encouragement about Brexit.
I read the Telegraph when I look for the facts. (No, I don't pay for it; there are ways and means!)

When I read about Boris conceding re. Brexit, it usually revolves around our handing over our fishing areas, at least in part. I strongly disagree with such an action on his part. After all, the EU - and especially the Frogs - ruined our fisheries industry. It is only fair that we should ruin theirs without having any qualms.

To be realistic, I'd like to think that Boris will not give in to them, mainly for the much quoted reason that he'd be signing his own political suicide and that of his party.

On the contrary, as long as Boris refuses to hand over our fishing areas, I am absolutely sure that we will leave without a deal.

The reason is that even if 26 of the member states accept our proposals for a deal, you can be sure that the Frogs will boycott it and it only takes one state to do so and the proposal can not be accepted, or at least that is how I understand it.
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24-11-2020, 11:59 AM
14

Re: Ominous News!!

Originally Posted by JBR ->
It's true what some have said.
I read the Express when I look for encouragement about Brexit.
I read the Telegraph when I look for the facts. (No, I don't pay for it; there are ways and means!)

When I read about Boris conceding re. Brexit, it usually revolves around our handing over our fishing areas, at least in part. I strongly disagree with such an action on his part. After all, the EU - and especially the Frogs - ruined our fisheries industry. It is only fair that we should ruin theirs without having any qualms.

To be realistic, I'd like to think that Boris will not give in to them, mainly for the much quoted reason that he'd be signing his own political suicide and that of his party.

On the contrary, as long as Boris refuses to hand over our fishing areas, I am absolutely sure that we will leave without a deal.

The reason is that even if 26 of the member states accept our proposals for a deal, you can be sure that the Frogs will boycott it and it only takes one state to do so and the proposal can not be accepted, or at least that is how I understand it.
Thats pretty much my take on it too JBR?
Thats why l believe we should not waste anymore time talking but
should just call off the talks ! We then automatically go onto WTO
rules so there should be no disruption whatever unless the EU itself
manufactures some problems out of thin air !!!
The only blockages left in the ""negotiations" now concern matters of
our sovreignty and according to Barmier 95% of the practical stuff
has been agreed, it just leaves the little bit which transfers the
power back to UK, so its about power only imo??? Everything else is
all ready agreed according to Barmy so no problems should be
anticipated with trade flows etc!
Some on this forum and are are happy to wait for january and leaving
then with or without adeal, and are confidant that Boris will keep his
promises and execute a proper exit, for myself although l would agree
that Boris has not put a foot wrong so far where brexit is concerned,
I dont quite trust the bulk of the tory party to follow through and
complete the job??
AND IT AINT OVER TILL WE RECLAIM OUR TERRITORY!!!

Donkeyman! 👎😟👎
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24-11-2020, 12:18 PM
15

Re: Ominous News!!

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
Thats pretty much my take on it too JBR?
Thats why l believe we should not waste anymore time talking but
should just call off the talks ! We then automatically go onto WTO
rules so there should be no disruption whatever unless the EU itself
manufactures some problems out of thin air !!!
The only blockages left in the ""negotiations" now concern matters of
our sovreignty and according to Barmier 95% of the practical stuff
has been agreed, it just leaves the little bit which transfers the
power back to UK, so its about power only imo??? Everything else is
all ready agreed according to Barmy so no problems should be
anticipated with trade flows etc!
Some on this forum and are are happy to wait for january and leaving
then with or without adeal, and are confidant that Boris will keep his
promises and execute a proper exit, for myself although l would agree
that Boris has not put a foot wrong so far where brexit is concerned,
I dont quite trust the bulk of the tory party to follow through and
complete the job??
AND IT AINT OVER TILL WE RECLAIM OUR TERRITORY!!!

Donkeyman! 👎😟👎
I mostly agree.
But my take on it is that Boris really doesn't want the possible future hassle of being seen to walk away.
IMHO it would weaken future possibilities to sue the EU if we walk & didn't give them every chance, but this way (prolonging talks) we have the argument that we tried our level best but the EU still would not accept our sovereignty.



I still think that we have truly excellent grounds for legal action if the EU do not provide at least a Canada-style deal with no strings affecting sovereignty attached.
The EU can't even argue about time: they have had four-and-a-half years.
CETA took under five start to finish.
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24-11-2020, 03:24 PM
16

Re: Ominous News!!

I think fishing, level playing field etc might be split from the trade agreement to allow the FTA to be ratified.

Then the fishing, level playing field etc will rumble on next year.
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JBR
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24-11-2020, 03:47 PM
17

Re: Ominous News!!

Originally Posted by Bread ->
I think fishing, level playing field etc might be split from the trade agreement to allow the FTA to be ratified.

Then the fishing, level playing field etc will rumble on next year.
Not acceptable, in my opinion.

The trade agreement is meaningless on its own. Tariff-free trade benefits them far more than us because we buy far more from them than they buy from us.
For them to still prevent our making our businesses more competitive and also to continue to plunder our fishing areas leaves us almost exactly where we have been for the past forty years.

If Boris does back down, he and his party will have to suffer the consequences.
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24-11-2020, 03:54 PM
18

Re: Ominous News!!

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Not acceptable, in my opinion.

The trade agreement is meaningless on its own. Tariff-free trade benefits them far more than us because we buy far more from them than they buy from us.
For them to still prevent our making our businesses more competitive and also to continue to plunder our fishing areas leaves us almost exactly where we have been for the past forty years.

If Boris does back down, he and his party will have to suffer the consequences.
So you don't want an FTA with the EU ?
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JBR
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24-11-2020, 04:10 PM
19

Re: Ominous News!!

Originally Posted by Bread ->
So you don't want an FTA with the EU ?
I'm ambivalent as to whether we have a FTA. I'd be just as happy to trade under WTO rules.

I want complete independence from them without them having any continuing control over us.

I should be happy to have a fair FTA with the EU as long as we retain all our rights as an independent and sovereign nation. Our fishing areas are ours, though we may allow some limited access on licence, renewable every year.
The way we support our own businesses is up to us and is of no concern of the EU.
Finally, Northern Ireland is part of the UK and will remain so in all respects.
swimfeeders
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Shropshire
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24-11-2020, 04:27 PM
20

Re: Ominous News!!

Originally Posted by Bread ->
So you don't want an FTA with the EU ?
Hi

As you have regularly posted, we have all the cards and we do not need any FTA with the EU.

You have stated that no FTA and WTO is the way to go.

I hope you are right.
 
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