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Rehab44
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05-11-2018, 05:06 PM
21

Re: Referendums

On the other hand i have read arguments that state that referendums are too important to allow “the people” to vote on and only the “elected” representatives should make the decision, one MP one vote....it did make me chuckle along with the argument that only people whose IQs were larger than their trainer size would be permitted to vote
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05-11-2018, 05:44 PM
22

Re: Referendums

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
I don't see how you could have a referendum because you don't have a written constitution as such but if anything the recent Brexit plebiscite has shown why such an important decision needed a tougher test such as you outlined. It seems to me that the country is hopelessly divided by this issue and the close result has made it worse.

Australia does have a constitution and a tough test to change it which is, in my opinion, what was/is needed. Briefly:

First the EXACT clause that will replace the existing one has to be passed into law by both houses of Parliament. Then within 6 months (I think it is) the referendum has to be put to the people and it not only has to be passed by a majority of voters it also has to pass in a majority of states. This is the reason only 8 of 44 attempts to change the constitution have succeeded.

To apply this example to the Brexit vote the question would not be "Do you want to "leave" or "stay"? but would state the terms of leaving (or some minimum standard). Then it not only would have to then be passed by the majority of voters but it would also have to pass in three of the following "nations": England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland (if it is good enough for Rugby then...)

However you did it it should have had a tougher test which would also make each side work harder for their cause and hopefully the result would be more acceptable to both sides. You only have to read the Brexit Forum to see the enmity the recent result has caused. It was a stuff up from go to whoa
An excellent idea...
for delaying or overturning Brexit.

You should send your idea to Treason May.
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05-11-2018, 09:38 PM
23

Re: Referendums

Originally Posted by JBR ->
An excellent idea...
for delaying or overturning Brexit.

You should send your idea to Treason May.
Far too late for that - the deed is done and the nation is divided completing the fracturing of your society that was started by Thatcher.

As I say you only have to read the bitter arguments within this forum to see the damage it has done
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05-11-2018, 09:44 PM
24

Re: Referendums

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
Far too late for that - the deed is done and the nation is divided completing the fracturing of your society that was started by Thatcher.

As I say you only have to read the bitter arguments within this forum to see the damage it has done
It's only bad on the internet really Bruce, I have nice chats with remainers in real life they respect the referendum result and really just want it done now, on the internet we talk things round in a circle keep hashing over whether we should leave in bitter exchanges. Just doesn't happen in real life.
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05-11-2018, 10:55 PM
25

Re: Referendums

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
It's only bad on the internet really Bruce, I have nice chats with remainers in real life they respect the referendum result and really just want it done now, on the internet we talk things round in a circle keep hashing over whether we should leave in bitter exchanges. Just doesn't happen in real life.
I believe you're right, Julia.

Not only the internet, but also on the telly and the TV news. These media do tend to exaggerate matters and, in so doing, stir up the remainiacs to complain and go on marches, etc.

I believe that the remainiacs and remoaners are, in actual fact, very much a minority. The sensible remainers are much less militant and many of them have probably already come to terms with the fact that the majority in a democratic referendum voted to leave.

I know this to be true because I have friends who are remainers.

Needless to say, the other two categories (remoaners and remainiacs) are not people with whom I wish to associate.
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06-11-2018, 01:23 PM
26

Re: Referendums

This thread has returned to Brexit again, just shows how important these political times are. I believe it was Margaret Thatcher (not my favourite lady!) who said that referendums were the “Device of Dictators and Demagogues”, the reasons being they are contrary to the sovereignty of Parliament and easily manipulated.
That being said, is it right that right to commence on major constitutional change on a simple majority rather than a super majority ( defined as a 2:1 majority on a 70% turnout)? For example, Brexit went through on 52% of a 70% turnout which is 37% of the total electorate (and yes I know you can use the same arguments re the Scottish Indy vote). However. If the rules are set and known before the vote and you participated, then the result is the result.
Another interesting point I’ve heard is that people sometimes answer a different question, in Brexit concerns re Immigration in general (not just from EU) played a major part. Easy for me to say as a remainer from an area of low immigration (unless you count English retirees and they are more than welcome believe me.) but it’s an interesting point nevertheless.
May you live in interesting times indeed. I don’t know the answer but hard hats on, we’re in for quite a ride in the coming weeks/months!
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08-11-2018, 12:05 AM
27

Re: Referendums

Originally Posted by weedeek ->
That being said, is it right that right to commence on major constitutional change on a simple majority rather than a super majority ( defined as a 2:1 majority on a 70% turnout)?
Yes it is right. BrExit MUST go ahead. None of this Billy BS about the percentage of the populous that voted to Leave.

The FACTS are that a whole string of past Prime Ministers and corrupt fraudulent politicians effected MASSIVE CONSTITUIONAL CHANGE by moving us into the EU by stealth and subterfuge in the first place, never giving the UK population a referendum on such massive change.

So on that basis, we must take the BrExit referendum result and see it through, no fudges, no compromises. Out of the EU, totally and permanently.
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08-11-2018, 01:18 AM
28

Re: Referendums

Originally Posted by Realist ->
Yes it is right. BrExit MUST go ahead. None of this Billy BS about the percentage of the populous that voted to Leave.

The FACTS are that a whole string of past Prime Ministers and corrupt fraudulent politicians effected MASSIVE CONSTITUIONAL CHANGE by moving us into the EU by stealth and subterfuge in the first place, never giving the UK population a referendum on such massive change.

So on that basis, we must take the BrExit referendum result and see it through, no fudges, no compromises. Out of the EU, totally and permanently.
Hear hear!

Funny how remoaners don't ever whinge about close general election results deserving a second vote.
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08-11-2018, 01:26 AM
29

Re: Referendums

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Hear hear!

Funny how remoaners don't ever whinge about close general election results deserving a second vote.
What are you talking about? The British are always whinging about their elected government no matter what the margin.
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08-11-2018, 08:19 AM
30

Re: Referendums

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
What are you talking about? The British are always whinging about their elected government no matter what the margin.
The British and the British alone.

Nobody Else.

Not one other peoples on the planet whinges about the Govt of the day.

All Americans love Trump!

All French people love Macron!

All over the globe there is love peace and harmony.

Only in Britain is there discord

Thanks for enlightening us Bruce.

Your comments are always so fair and unbiased and never prejudiced in any way.

Your a Top Bloke, Bruce, Top Bloke!
 
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